Was on the Penistone line yesterday, and whilst travelling towards Huddersfield I saw a SPAD indicator signal, I think at Stocksmoor. Just wondering why this was there, I thought they were usually placed in areas which either had a lot of SPADs or were perceived to be vulnerable to SPADs or the effects of one. Guessing it may be due to the fact that the track goes from double to single in that area?
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SPAD indicator on the Penistone line
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ralphchadkirk
Established Member
I'll have a look. Do you know the controlling signalbox?
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
Can't find anything about Multi SPAD signals there, but then again the NR site isn't that reliable.
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
They're not no, but the site also gives details of SPAD indicators fitted.
moggie
Member
Don't know the area but SPAD indicator provision would normally result from a formal Overrun risk assessment process mandated by Group Standards in recent years (GK/RT0064, GI/RT7006). Provision would be where it is assessed the consequences of a SPAD would be particulary serious to warrant additional mitigation measures with the purpose of alerting the driver that a signal has been passed at red.
TPWS has in the meantime become a more effective way of reducing the risk hence they are not often specified these days. It would depend on the individual circumstances or course and the identified risk giving the concern.
PS anyone know ehen the installation was commissioned - around 2000 - 2004 I would guess.
TPWS has in the meantime become a more effective way of reducing the risk hence they are not often specified these days. It would depend on the individual circumstances or course and the identified risk giving the concern.
PS anyone know ehen the installation was commissioned - around 2000 - 2004 I would guess.
Huddersfield is the controlling signalbox. I'd guess that a SPAD indicator was installed there (and possibly other locations on the route - I can't remember, but I seem to remember a couple of others) as a result of the risk of a collision on the single line.
Crossforth
Established Member
Has anybody got a video or picture of one in action, I'm curious to see one working.
O L Leigh
Established Member
SPAD-I's are usually positioned at locations where there is a risk of a SPAD resulting in a collision. Therefore they might be seen on approach to single-line sections or at converging junctions where a train SPAD-ing the protecting signal could reach a point of conflict with another train.
Although TPWS has reduced the chance of a SPAD resulting in a collision, SPAD-I's are still necessary. This is because they are usually installed in pairs or even sets and will apply to all other lines where trains are travelling towards a point of conflict. Therefore if a train SPAD's the protecting signal it will set off all the SPAD-I's in that set to alert drivers of other trains to the danger. Even if a driver is running on greens, if he/she sees a lit SPAD-I the train must be stopped immediately and the signaller contacted.
O L Leigh
Although TPWS has reduced the chance of a SPAD resulting in a collision, SPAD-I's are still necessary. This is because they are usually installed in pairs or even sets and will apply to all other lines where trains are travelling towards a point of conflict. Therefore if a train SPAD's the protecting signal it will set off all the SPAD-I's in that set to alert drivers of other trains to the danger. Even if a driver is running on greens, if he/she sees a lit SPAD-I the train must be stopped immediately and the signaller contacted.
O L Leigh
royaloak
Established Member
A SPAD indicator has 3 red lights mounted vertically, the middle one lights up with the top and bottom ones flashing together, only ever seen one going off and that is enough thank you.
I think there is a diagram showing what they do on the Signal Box website, if I have the name correct.
Going back to Stocksmoor, IIRC the northern end of the station has a small amount of line towards a tunnel, where I think the track goes from double to single. Stocksmoor is also where the two services often meet (one from Sheffield and the other from Huddersfield).
Going back to Stocksmoor, IIRC the northern end of the station has a small amount of line towards a tunnel, where I think the track goes from double to single. Stocksmoor is also where the two services often meet (one from Sheffield and the other from Huddersfield).
.The signal you refer to is the signal that controls the double track to single line.
The tunnel you speak about is Brockholes Tunnel.
From the Stocksmoor end of this tunnel the line goes from 1 in 50 to level as far as Shepley Station.
At about 250 yards from Shepley Station, there is the single line going to towards Clayton West Junction where there was a signal box and sidings on both sides of the line. This is where trains normally pass each other.
The single line section is controlled by electronic token less block as far as Penistone.
About 1993 I spent a lot of time on the Penistone Line, altering the track layout of this L and Y Branch.
The line was made into single line from Springwood Jct, at Huddersfield upto Stocksmoor.
Barnsley box and Huddersfield box are the controlling boxes on the line.
I have spent many hours working engineering/passenger trains over this branch in my time on the railway. Relayaing track, dropping stone and pointing trains in all of the tunnels in that area.
I once had to go into the front cab of a DMU from Penistone to Platform 4 at Huddersfield as the driver could not get power from the front unit.
I had to use the communication buzzer in the front unit to signal the driver to go/stop/ slow down .
This is why guards should have route knowledge of the rialway they are working over.
The rule book states. ' Guard where provided is in charge of the train.'
As a point of order, The Kirklees Light Railway runs on the old tackbed down to Clayton West from a spot called Lower Ozzings, and ends just before CW Jct.
I can look out of my kitchen window, and look out onto the track of the KLR coming down the bank to the old CW Station.
Many years ago this line had 2 pits, one at Skelmanthorpe and one at Park Mill. This pit sent 3 trains a day to Elland Power Station. Each train had around 25 loose coupled coal waggons and a brake van.
Alas all now gone.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The signal you refer to is the signal that controls the double track to single line.
The tunnel you speak about is Brockholes Tunnel.
From the Stocksmoor end of this tunnel the line goes from 1 in 50 to level as far as Shepley Station.
At about 250 yards from Shepley Station, there is the single line going to towards Clayton West Junction where there was a signal box and sidings on both sides of the line. This is where trains normally pass each other.
The single line section is controlled by electronic token less block as far as Penistone.
About 1993 I spent a lot of time on the Penistone Line, altering the track layout of this L and Y Branch.
The line was made into single line from Springwood Jct, at Huddersfield upto Stocksmoor.
Barnsley box and Huddersfield box are the controlling boxes on the line.
I have spent many hours working engineering/passenger trains over this branch in my time on the railway. Relayaing track, dropping stone and pointing trains in all of the tunnels in that area.
I once had to go into the front cab of a DMU from Penistone to Platform 4 at Huddersfield as the driver could not get power from the front unit.
I had to use the communication buzzer in the front unit to signal the driver to go/stop/ slow down .
This is why guards should have route knowledge of the rialway they are working over.
The rule book states. ' Guard where provided is in charge of the train.'
As a point of order, The Kirklees Light Railway runs on the old tackbed down to Clayton West from a spot called Lower Ozzings, and ends just before CW Jct.
I can look out of my kitchen window, and look out onto the track of the KLR coming down the bank to the old CW Station.
Many years ago this line had 2 pits, one at Skelmanthorpe and one at Park Mill. This pit sent 3 trains a day to Elland Power Station. Each train had around 25 loose coupled coal waggons and a brake van.
Alas all now gone
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The link below will take you to 5 pics. taken today.
Pic 1; gradient profile 250 yards from shepley Station.
Pic2;Looking towards Shepley Station.
Pic3 ; Signal for single line section 400yds from Shepley station, with SPAD indicator under bridge.
PIC 4; Stocksmoor SPAD indicator, looking towards Huddersfield.
PIC5; Stocksmoor station. Left to Barnsley, right to Huddersfield.
http://www.imagebam.com/image/ddab1380632641
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The link below will take you to 5 pics. taken today.
Pic 1; gradient profile 250 yards from shepley Station.
Pic2;Looking towards Shepley Station.
Pic3 ; Signal for single line section 400yds from Shepley station, with SPAD indicator under bridge.
PIC 4; Stocksmoor SPAD indicator, looking towards Huddersfield.
PIC5; Stocksmoor station. Left to Barnsley, right to Huddersfield.
http://www.imagebam.com/image/ddab1380632641
The tunnel you speak about is Brockholes Tunnel.
From the Stocksmoor end of this tunnel the line goes from 1 in 50 to level as far as Shepley Station.
At about 250 yards from Shepley Station, there is the single line going to towards Clayton West Junction where there was a signal box and sidings on both sides of the line. This is where trains normally pass each other.
The single line section is controlled by electronic token less block as far as Penistone.
About 1993 I spent a lot of time on the Penistone Line, altering the track layout of this L and Y Branch.
The line was made into single line from Springwood Jct, at Huddersfield upto Stocksmoor.
Barnsley box and Huddersfield box are the controlling boxes on the line.
I have spent many hours working engineering/passenger trains over this branch in my time on the railway. Relayaing track, dropping stone and pointing trains in all of the tunnels in that area.
I once had to go into the front cab of a DMU from Penistone to Platform 4 at Huddersfield as the driver could not get power from the front unit.
I had to use the communication buzzer in the front unit to signal the driver to go/stop/ slow down .
This is why guards should have route knowledge of the rialway they are working over.
The rule book states. ' Guard where provided is in charge of the train.'
As a point of order, The Kirklees Light Railway runs on the old tackbed down to Clayton West from a spot called Lower Ozzings, and ends just before CW Jct.
I can look out of my kitchen window, and look out onto the track of the KLR coming down the bank to the old CW Station.
Many years ago this line had 2 pits, one at Skelmanthorpe and one at Park Mill. This pit sent 3 trains a day to Elland Power Station. Each train had around 25 loose coupled coal waggons and a brake van.
Alas all now gone.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The signal you refer to is the signal that controls the double track to single line.
The tunnel you speak about is Brockholes Tunnel.
From the Stocksmoor end of this tunnel the line goes from 1 in 50 to level as far as Shepley Station.
At about 250 yards from Shepley Station, there is the single line going to towards Clayton West Junction where there was a signal box and sidings on both sides of the line. This is where trains normally pass each other.
The single line section is controlled by electronic token less block as far as Penistone.
About 1993 I spent a lot of time on the Penistone Line, altering the track layout of this L and Y Branch.
The line was made into single line from Springwood Jct, at Huddersfield upto Stocksmoor.
Barnsley box and Huddersfield box are the controlling boxes on the line.
I have spent many hours working engineering/passenger trains over this branch in my time on the railway. Relayaing track, dropping stone and pointing trains in all of the tunnels in that area.
I once had to go into the front cab of a DMU from Penistone to Platform 4 at Huddersfield as the driver could not get power from the front unit.
I had to use the communication buzzer in the front unit to signal the driver to go/stop/ slow down .
This is why guards should have route knowledge of the rialway they are working over.
The rule book states. ' Guard where provided is in charge of the train.'
As a point of order, The Kirklees Light Railway runs on the old tackbed down to Clayton West from a spot called Lower Ozzings, and ends just before CW Jct.
I can look out of my kitchen window, and look out onto the track of the KLR coming down the bank to the old CW Station.
Many years ago this line had 2 pits, one at Skelmanthorpe and one at Park Mill. This pit sent 3 trains a day to Elland Power Station. Each train had around 25 loose coupled coal waggons and a brake van.
Alas all now gone
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The link below will take you to 5 pics. taken today.
Pic 1; gradient profile 250 yards from shepley Station.
Pic2;Looking towards Shepley Station.
Pic3 ; Signal for single line section 400yds from Shepley station, with SPAD indicator under bridge.
PIC 4; Stocksmoor SPAD indicator, looking towards Huddersfield.
PIC5; Stocksmoor station. Left to Barnsley, right to Huddersfield.
http://www.imagebam.com/image/ddab1380632641
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The link below will take you to 5 pics. taken today.
Pic 1; gradient profile 250 yards from shepley Station.
Pic2;Looking towards Shepley Station.
Pic3 ; Signal for single line section 400yds from Shepley station, with SPAD indicator under bridge.
PIC 4; Stocksmoor SPAD indicator, looking towards Huddersfield.
PIC5; Stocksmoor station. Left to Barnsley, right to Huddersfield.
http://www.imagebam.com/image/ddab1380632641
Last edited:
moggie
Member
I also recall that signalling projects I've was involved with were specifying SPAD indicators around the time of TPWS introduction. The new signalling installation was being commissioned which by that time was with TPWS or with a planned retro fit of TPWS but at a time when not all rolling stock using the line covered by the new signalling was TPWS fitted - i.e during the rolling stock fitment period which spanned a few years. That would make it around 2000 - 2003 era. Of course that is no longer the case nowadys with all stock fitted hence I rarely see them coming through on new signalling schemes.
The method of working between Barnsley and Huddersfield signalboxes is properly known as "Track Circuit Block". The points forming the double to single line junction to the south of Shepley station are worked from Huddersfield, though if I recall correctly, Barnsley box has a "slot" (release) on Huddersfield's signal controlling the exit from the Up Stocksmoor line.
Huddersfield may have a similar slot on Barnsley's signal 1053 at Penistone, though it is not shown on the diagram. See: http://www.flickr.com/photos/24041160@N02/2288905586/in/set-72157604895108875/ Huddersfield's diagram may indicate this, but the photo is not clear: http://supersignaller.fotopic.net/p41340444.html
Blockman
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