SouthWest trains and wrong photocard

[jon0844]

And can I please just ask that everyone will please refrain from trying some legalese.

I concur.

 

[Haywain]

I had a look for the exact T&C's but couldn't find them, however I'm pretty confident that they'll contain wording to the effect that (1) The travelcard is only to be used by the named owner, with matching photocard; and (2) That the card is the property of the TOC and becomes invalid and will be withdrawn if misused.

By breaking condition (1) above, then condition (2) becomes active.

It is using the card that causes it to become invalid, not getting caught - unless you're of the opinion that fare evasion only becomes an offence when you get caught.

I was commenting on the idea of the season ticket holder reporting the "theft" of the season ticket. Fare evasion is clearly an offence whether caught or not.

But there is an intention that by using the ticket that is issued to someone else then they have set out to deprive the TOC of the revenue they would otherwise have recieved from the passenger actually paying for their ****ing ticket.

Yes. I agree. A fare was evaded, but it is difficult to argue that the season ticket was stolen. One does not rely on the other.

And can I please just ask that everyone will please refrain from trying some legalese unless you are a brief in threads like this. It does not help and can also cause confusion to people who may not post here but browse with their own problems and then screw up in court. Stop it.

I'm sorry if I offended you and others by using the same words as another poster.

 

[Greenback]

I don't think it's helpful to anyone to introduce discussions of whether the intention was to permanently deprive someone of their Travelcard or not. I thought intent was interpreted by actions, not thoughts?

Anyway, if anyone does want to debate this subject, please do so in a separate thread. Thanks.

 

[Clip]

I was commenting on the idea of the season ticket holder reporting the "theft" of the season ticket. Fare evasion is clearly an offence whether caught or not.
Yes. I agree. A fare was evaded, but it is difficult to argue that the season ticket was stolen. One does not rely on the other.
I'm sorry if I offended you and others by using the same words as another poster.

I wasnt offended. My point was that posters shouldnt really be posting about laws and the issues surrounding them if they dont know what they are on about. It doesnt help and as has happened in other threads they get shot down when someone who is legally trained actually posts.

 

[Greenback]

Speculation and theories/interpretation of how things do or should operate can be very unhelpful in this section. They can bog threads down in back and forth discussions about incidental points, and give the OP a false sense of hope.

That's why these threads should be kept on topic and academic or theoretical discussions take place in another thread or even another section.

 

[Tibbs]

I wasnt offended. My point was that posters shouldnt really be posting about laws and the issues surrounding them if they dont know what they are on about. It doesnt help and as has happened in other threads they get shot down when someone who is legally trained actually posts.

So, in your virew only a lawyer or barrister who is specifically works in railway matters can post about htis sort of thing.

So, that'll be... no-one on this forum, that I'm aware of at least. The only person I could think of would be DaveNewcastle, but I'm pretty sure he's posted that this is an area of interest, rather than his specific speciality.

Makes for zero discussion then.

 

[Clip]

So, in your virew only a lawyer or barrister who is specifically works in railway matters can post about htis sort of thing.So, that'll be... no-one on this forum, that I'm aware of at least. The only person I could think of would be DaveNewcastle, but I'm pretty sure he's posted that this is an area of interest, rather than his specific speciality.

Makes for zero discussion then.

No my point was more about people who are not legally trained who start making posts like this

On that thread I pointed out why it is not theft, as theft in the law of England and Wales requires there to be an intent to permanently deprive someone of property.

Or many other posts where people post up what they think may be according to the law but then suffix it to state IANAL.

Quite simply the railway bylaws are there and they make it perfectly clear what is and isnt permissible. That you can talk about as we all know them by now. Nit picking or trying to incorprate other issues surrounding laws which may be similar is simply not good practice for those coming on here looking for assistance.

Thats only my opinion as I do see such things in black and white when it comes to issues like this - ticketless travel. Trying to pick apart the bylaws doesnt do anyone any favours especially since they have been in place now along with other railway legislation since practically the start of the railways and trying to do so when you are not legally trained is ill advised in my view.

 

[ian959]

Where is the like button? Fully agree with Clip here