Southern train cancelled when line was open (17/04)

[Class15]

Hi all.

So today, 2M59, the 18:47 Southern service from West Brompton, which I was on, was cancelled at Shepherds Bush due to signalling issues on the West Coast.

I did a bit of further investigation to find that the issue was at Camden, and on the fast lines. This does not affect southern services, as by the time the southern train joins on at Wembley, all lines were available.

This is not a great display from the railway, and just looks quite poor. Other passengers were hardly amused when I told them that the line wasn’t actually blocked. Was there a different reason behind this cancellation I wonder?

 

[JonathanH]

I did a bit of further investigation to find that the issue was at Camden, and on the fast lines. This does not affect southern services, as by the time the southern train joins on at Wembley, all lines were available.

What about if the trains that usually use the fast lines need to use the slow lines? Looks like all trains were on the slow as far as North Wembley Junction.

 

[Class15]

What about if the trains that usually use the fast lines need to use the slow lines?

Not at Wembley. There are crossovers at Willesden West London Junction.

Also, surely cancelling one of the many services out of Euston would be better than cancelling the once-an-hour southern service?

 

[JonathanH]

Not at Wembley. There are crossovers at Willesden West London Junction.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...25-04-17/1745-1845?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt shows everything on the slow through Wembley Central for over an hour (although I think you were a little unfortunate that the issue seems to have cleared around the time you were travelling, and I think some trains did cross elsewhere).

 

[LA50041]

Not at Wembley. There are crossovers at Willesden West London Junction.

Also, surely cancelling one of the many services out of Euston would be better than cancelling the once-an-hour southern service?

Probably cancelling a full train from Euston would be more disruptive than cancelling a lightly loaded service which has alternative journeys via Willesden Junction would be better

 

[Class15]

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...25-04-17/1745-1845?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt shows everything on the slow through Wembley Central for over an hour (although I think you were a little unfortunate that the issue seems to have cleared around the time you were travelling, and I think some trains did cross elsewhere).

Thank you very much, that seems to make sense.

Probably cancelling a full train from Euston would be more disruptive than cancelling a lightly loaded service which has alternative journeys via Willesden Junction would be better

I can assure you it was not lightly loaded! It also decided to sit in the platform at Shepherd’s Bush for around 5 minutes, delaying the overground train behind.

 

[Starmill]

Thank you very much, that seems to make sense.

I can assure you it was not lightly loaded! It also decided to sit in the platform at Shepherd’s Bush for around 5 minutes, delaying the overground train behind.

Surely the conductor has to check that the train is empty? And the driver would have needed to be told where they were going if shunting. Realistically this takes several minutes. Five is actually quite quick.

 

[coolvid86101]

There is the added complexity of crew being displaced. If the previous train was cancelled there may be a crew swap that no longer works.

I'm not sure whether they still have conductors on those trains as Southern is (almost) driver only operated – although there are some route exceptions.

Granted it would've probably been better for passengers to have the train cancelled at Willesden quite often it's crew rules that break things as they are very complex!

 

[LA50041]

There is the added complexity of crew being displaced. If the previous train was cancelled there may be a crew swap that no longer works.

I'm not sure whether they still have conductors on those trains as Southern is (almost) driver only operated – although there are some route exceptions.

Granted it would've probably been better for passengers to have the train cancelled at Willesden quite often it's crew rules that break things as they are very complex!

The west London line is operated by Norwood conductors between Clapham Junction and Watford.

The train could not have been terminated at Willesden as Southern crews don’t have any knowledge of the route between Mitre Bridge and Willesden Junction

 

[voyagerdude220]

I think this is a classic case of the OP not seeing the bigger picture so to speak. Yes your line might not have been blocked, but as others have already said, trains which were booked to use the blocked affected line would have been diverted onto your line, causing congestion. Whilst your train was busy, I'm sure a mainline evening peak commuter service out of Euston will have been even busier.

It's just like when a TOC sometimes terminates a train short of it's destination to ensure it's next working is on time- this often disrupts far fewer people compared to the inconvenience of running through to the booked destination and keeping it's next working delayed. Very inconvenient for people affected, but far fewer people affected overall.

 

[AlterEgo]

Southern is probably the lowest priority service on the South WCML given the alternative journey opportunities when a cancellation occurs anyway.

 

[Class15]

Southern is probably the lowest priority service on the South WCML given the alternative journey opportunities when a cancellation occurs anyway.

Surely those alternatives involve a far bigger inconvenience than cancelling, for example, a Tring train, and making passengers take a Milton Keynes train 15 minutes later?