Southern region EMUs 1981 help

[heart-of-wessex]

Hi all,

Just wanted to ask a few questions about 1981 in the southern region, so if you know the answers to the following please do reply, it would be much appretiated :

1) Today the Chessington/Shepperton/Strawberry loopers/Hampton services are operated by 455s, but AFAIK these weren't around in '81. Wasn't there 508s in service but I thought there wasn't much of them, so would some of these be EMU slammers? I presume also the Hounslow loop services were slammers?

2) Does anyone have a picture of a Class 430 EMU that was used with 73s/33s on Boat Trains (and IIRC worked on their own from Bournemouth - Waterloo)? If no one has a picture or can't find one (I can't find one suprisingly online) then would you be able to say what they are identical to I.E if they look like a 421 but are a spot on resemblance to the 423s or whatever.

3) All waterloo - pompey/alton/reading/southampton etc are slammers I guess, and I assume they can be any type of slammer?


Any help appreciated!


cheers,

James.

 

[Dennis]

There are some 430 shots here and 4TC shots here. Brings back the memories

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Cheers dennis!

great shots! I heard the boat trains were 4 cars to the terminal, running 8 cars from Waterloo and dividing the rear 4 at Bournemouth, but looking at the pics I presume they ran 8 cars to the quay?

Is it true also that the salisbury 33s ran with a pair of 4TCs as well?


cheers,

James.

 

[jopsuk]

Cheers dennis!

great shots! I heard the boat trains were 4 cars to the terminal, running 8 cars from Waterloo and dividing the rear 4 at Bournemouth, but looking at the pics I presume they ran 8 cars to the quay?


cheers,

James.

Reading wikiepdia, which seems well informed in this case, it looks like it varied depending upon service/demand whether they ran with one or two 4TC sets- the 4Reps would wait at Bournemouth for a returning TC rake to be propelled in by the 33

 

[33011]

Hi all,

Just wanted to ask a few questions about 1981 in the southern region, so if you know the answers to the following please do reply, it would be much appretiated :

1) Today the Chessington/Shepperton/Strawberry loopers/Hampton services are operated by 455s, but AFAIK these weren't around in '81. Wasn't there 508s in service but I thought there wasn't much of them, so would some of these be EMU slammers? I presume also the Hounslow loop services were slammers?

2) Does anyone have a picture of a Class 430 EMU that was used with 73s/33s on Boat Trains (and IIRC worked on their own from Bournemouth - Waterloo)? If no one has a picture or can't find one (I can't find one suprisingly online) then would you be able to say what they are identical to I.E if they look like a 421 but are a spot on resemblance to the 423s or whatever.

3) All waterloo - pompey/alton/reading/southampton etc are slammers I guess, and I assume they can be any type of slammer?


Any help appreciated!


cheers,

James.

I know 508s used to work to Shepperton because i remember seeing a picture of one that had gone through the blocks and was dangling above the street.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Prior to the 455s most SR suburban services were worked by class 405 units.

http://gordon-fuller.fotopic.net/p57132132.html

 

[delt1c]

And anyone who complains about todays units should have tried travelling in a compartment sub in peak hours, nostalgic yes, but not for the faint hearted.The 508's whilst not here for long were a welcome breath of fresh air when they entered service.
Incidently the 4Subs still live on as some of the traction motors were refurbished and used on the 455's.
Southern region used to have some interesting units and diagrams in the 70's and 80's. There was one morning peak which was formed of a 33 plus TC and a VEP , it was to seperate services which combined and both diesel and electric used to Waterloo.
Also there was the infamous 8VAB and for those who complain about 450's on Southampton services a batch of 4VEP's were built for semifast sevices on the Bournemouth line.
Some of the TC units were originally built as 3TC without the 1st class

 

[507 001]

Incidently the 4Subs still live on as some of the traction motors were refurbished and used on the 455's.

wasn't that the 442's??

 

[mbonwick]

No.

The 442s had motors from the 4REPs, which meant that until the 442s were introduced, 4REPs were frequently reformed with 4TC vehicles.

 

[507 001]

No.

The 442s had motors from the 4REPs, which meant that until the 442s were introduced, 4REPs were frequently reformed with 4TC vehicles.

ah so it was, sorry my mistake

 

[Oracle]

I am sure that the 508s ran to Hounslow and back, as well as the Kingston Loop. I am pretty certain that I saw the prototype PEPs on the Hounslow loop as well.

In addition to the CI boat trains there were 33 + TC sets on the Southampton Eastern and Western Docks boat trains, 33 + TC on the Pompey to Salisbury and Bristol route, and Pompey to Reading. In 1982-3 I used to catch the morning ex-Portsmouth Harbour 'stopper' at Netley that called all stations from Cosham to Southampton Central.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Thank you very much for the help!

Getting much clearer info now

With the 73s on the boat trains, when they pulled off at Bournemouth, did the same ED probably sit in the reversal spurs until the return boat train comes back?

And talking of the era, class 9 freight meant unfitted freight running loco brakes only, what does this exactly mean?? If a class 37 was on such, does it mean the wagons have a different type of brake that isn't compatible, or maybe it means the wagons have no form of brake at all?? It never got me why they did such, restricted to 25mph!



Sorry for bugging you all for questions, as most of you know i wasn't around until 6 years later, so I have bog all idea apart from Hellfire (the bashing sim) and pics/any books I read.

The reason I am asking is because I am planning to do a few Microsoft Train Sim 1981 activities for the Dorset Coast route, so needed some info


Thanks for the answers to the original questions guys, MUCH appreciated!



cheers,

James.

 

[delt1c]

Others may be able to give more details. But unfitted freights had a brake van at the rear and relied on the brake vans brake and the loco. Some locos had brake tenders which were converted from redundant carriage bogies to increase the brake force, these were either propelled in front of the loco or between the loco and wagons.
Before decending a gradient the train would stop at the top of the incline and the guard who pin down some of the brakes on the wagons and the train would then proceed. I remember in the 1970's I used to spend a lot of time travelling with a freind who was a driver on freights and quite often once the train puts its nose over the top it ran all the way to the bottom with no chance of stopping it in between. Those were the good old days when you would see loads of unfitted freights in loops letting faster services past. When they stopped in a staion you would hear the familair claning of buffers as the wagons buffered up. Then as they moved of again you heard each coupling taking up the slack.
All sights and sounds now just memories.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Others may be able to give more details. But unfitted freights had a brake van at the rear and relied on the brake vans brake and the loco. Some locos had brake tenders which were converted from redundant carriage bogies to increase the brake force, these were either propelled in front of the loco or between the loco and wagons.
Before decending a gradient the train would stop at the top of the incline and the guard who pin down some of the brakes on the wagons and the train would then proceed. I remember in the 1970's I used to spend a lot of time travelling with a freind who was a driver on freights and quite often once the train puts its nose over the top it ran all the way to the bottom with no chance of stopping it in between. Those were the good old days when you would see loads of unfitted freights in loops letting faster services past. When they stopped in a staion you would hear the familair claning of buffers as the wagons buffered up. Then as they moved of again you heard each coupling taking up the slack.
All sights and sounds now just memories.

Yeah I'm sure one of the Tavistock to Gloucester class 9's in one of my WTTs I saw was booked to take around 20 odd hours in total, probably using every loop in sight!

So I guess that the wagons don't have any continuos brakes, just independant manual brakes? I guess also thats why we don't have such trains nowadays, probably thought it was a mental idea to have no brakes bar the loco and the van, I wonder what the lickey must have been like!

These 9's were also engineers sometimes weren't they? Anyone know what type of engineers wagon could have been used in '81 on class 9s?


cheers,

James.