Southern on-board supervisor ticket checks

[Surreytraveller]

I made three short trips on the west Coastway 313s last week and the OBS did a check on the third (Littlehampton to Portsmouth). He also sold tickets to a large family group (2 adults, 4 or 5 children, assorted bikes) who'd evidently boarded without any (to be fair, at an intermediate station so might not have had an opportunity).

313s don't have OBSs. They have Guards.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Apr 2023 ==

I have been checked the last three times I got on at Edenbridge (main) on the services worked by Southeastern crew - about one in four times travelling to Edenbridge Town, rarely on the return to London however. I have been checked a couple of times before Oxted on the East Grinstead service. I can't remember the last time I got checked anywhere on Thameslink, it genuinely may have been never (I am not a regular user but I use it enough that I would have expected to have by now).

Southeastern crew are Guards. They don't have OBSs

 

[DelW]

313s don't have OBSs. They have Guards.

My quoted post duly edited, I'm not familiar with 313-worked services so made a wrong assumption.

 

[Urban Gateline]

Actually, I have just remembered that Lancing and Angmering also don't have barriers. So yeah quite a lot of small minor stations.

Not sure where you got that information from but those 2 stations DO have ticket barriers, but many on the east and west coastway aren't gated (Aldrington, Fishersgate, Southwick, East Worthing, Durrington, Goring, Ford, Fishbourne, Bosham, Nutbourne, Southbourne, Emsworth, Warblington, Bedhampton, Hilsea, Cosham, Portchester, Swanwick, London Road (Brighton), Moulscoomb, Plumpton, Cooksbridge, Southease, both Newhaven stations, Bishopstone, Seaford, Glynde, Berwick, Hampden Park, all of Pevensey Westham to St Leonards Warrior Square, Ore, Preston Park, Wivelsfield, Balcombe. That's just for the Southern part of GTR too, by a far stretch I'd not say it's extensively gated!

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Not sure where you got that information from but those 2 stations DO have ticket barriers, but many on the east and west coastway aren't gated (Aldrington, Fishersgate, Southwick, East Worthing, Durrington, Goring, Ford, Fishbourne, Bosham, Nutbourne, Southbourne, Emsworth, Warblington, Bedhampton, Hilsea, Cosham, Portchester, Swanwick, London Road (Brighton), Moulscoomb, Plumpton, Cooksbridge, Southease, both Newhaven stations, Bishopstone, Seaford, Glynde, Berwick, Hampden Park, all of Pevensey Westham to St Leonards Warrior Square, Ore, Preston Park, Wivelsfield, Balcombe. That's just for the Southern part of GTR too, by a far stretch I'd not say it's extensively gated!

This was back in August 2021, things may have changed now. Perhaps the barriers are of a recent installation?

 

[KJCross1983]

Actually, I have just remembered that Lancing and Angmering also don't have barriers. So yeah quite a lot of small minor stations.

If anything, c2c is I believe a TOC where all stations have barriers and there isn't a single one without them. Certainly the case for Rainham and Chafford Hundred at least

Lancing & Angmering do have barriers.

Without Barriers are; Aldington, Southwick, Fishergate, East & West Worthing, Worthing back entrance ( below platform 1), Durrington, Ford, Fishbourne, Bosham, Nutbourne, Southbourne, Emsworth, Warblington.

 

[BJames]

313s don't have OBSs. They have Guards.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Apr 2023 ==


Southeastern crew are Guards. They don't have OBSs

Apologies, oversight on my part there, I'd forgotten that...

 

[ComUtoR]

Southeastern crew are Guards. They don't have OBSs

Southeastern employ OBSs for their High Speed services.

 

[boiledbeans2]

If a 313 is replaced by an Electrostar, then the Guard will act as an OBS. The Guards are not competent to operate 377s as a Guard (except Selhurst Conductors)

So that means the driver will have additional work if a 313 is replaced by a 377.

 

[Horizon22]

Southeastern employ OBSs for their High Speed services.

They are safety critical though are they not? Even though they don’t have door responsibilities.

 

[43066]

They are safety critical though are they not? Even though they don’t have door responsibilities.

Yes, but they’re only on the 395s, though.

They aren’t really relevant to this discussion because on the Tonbridge via Redhill line the Southeastern crewed trains have traditional guards with full door responsibilities.

 

[Horizon22]

Yes, but they’re only on the 395s, though.

They aren’t really relevant to this discussion because on the Tonbridge line the Southeastern crewed trains have traditional guards with full door responsibilities.

I was more referring to there being a key difference between OBSs on Southern and OBS (although the acronym is actually OBMs - On Board Managers) on Southeastern.

 

[Mainsideman]

When the 313s are replaced by 377s what happens to the guards? Do they all lose door competency?

 

[KJCross1983]

When the 313s are replaced by 377s what happens to the guards? Do they all lose door competency?

Short answer, yes.

 

[Mainsideman]

Short answer, yes.

Would they all essentially become OBS then where the train can run without them?

 

[KJCross1983]

Would they all essentially become OBS then where the train can run without them?

Yes

 

[Mainsideman]

Yes

Suppose ticket checking will be done more on these routes now with their being enough numbers to man every train with an OBS

 

[Urban Gateline]

Suppose ticket checking will be done more on these routes now with their being enough numbers to man every train with an OBS

Shouldn't be any different as the same trains that were 313 operated will just be run by 377's now with an OBS, but yes they will be able to focus on revenue more with no more safety critical duties.

 

[Krokodil]

but yes they will be able to focus on revenue more with no more safety critical duties.

It doesn't necessarily turn out like that in reality.

 

[Sonic1234]

If anything, ticket checking is more frequent and thorough on the 313s than other Southern services with an OBS

 

[PedroHav]

Yesterday an OBS did a cursory glance at paper tickets and did not check e-tickets at all. I engaged him in conversation and he said that anyone who didn't have a ticket paid up.
Which is exactly the point - they wouldn't have if he hadn't come along.
(many of the stations are barrier free)

 

[LowLevel]

When the 313s are replaced by 377s what happens to the guards? Do they all lose door competency?

As I understand it GTR has given notice to the RMT that it intends to close the Conductor depots at these locations and offer all employees position as OBS.

 

[Mainsideman]

As I understand it GTR has given notice to the RMT that it intends to close the Conductor depots at these locations and offer all employees position as OBS.

The best they could hope for I guess. Obs earn more than conductors aswell I believe.

 

[winks]

If OBS’s earn more (cost more) where’s the efficiency in bringing this new role in ?

 

[Mainsideman]

If OBS’s earn more (cost more) where’s the efficiency in bringing this new role in ?

Think sundays are outside working week for conductors and obviously training costs are alot less with OBS as no safety critical training needed.

 

[PedroHav]

On a positive note for the first time ever I saw an OBS see who got on at an unbarriered station and then went and checked their ticket - which they didn't have.
I did commend him when I got off and he said 'thanks'

 

[winks]

So they aren’t really OBSs more like roving ticket checkers !

 

[Urban Gateline]

So they aren’t really OBSs more like roving ticket checkers !

They always were that as OBS, seeing as the OBS role is not safety critical they play no part in door operation or dispatch, though they do also play an important role in customer service, especially assisting passengers who need a bit of extra help and making useful announcements, freeing up the Driver to do what they do best!

 

[paul1609]

They always were that as OBS, seeing as the OBS role is not safety critical they play no part in door operation or dispatch, though they do also play an important role in customer service, especially assisting passengers who need a bit of extra help and making useful announcements, freeing up the Driver to do what they do best!

I agree that they do not have a safety critical role but I understand that they are required to key in at a door at each station and step on the platform to check that there are no passengers requiring assistance. The key being recorded on ODMS. When the train is stopped at a red signal on the platform they do not key out until the signal clears. So it's not really true to say that they have no part in despatch. Whether this official I don't know but its certainly practise on the coastway at least.

 

[Mainsideman]

I agree that they do not have a safety critical role but I understand that they are required to key in at a door at each station and step on the platform to check that there are no passengers requiring assistance. The key being recorded on ODMS. When the train is stopped at a red signal on the platform they do not key out until the signal clears. So it's not really true to say that they have no part in despatch. Whether this official I don't know but its certainly practise on the coastway at least.

Does keying on mean that the door will not close if the driver decides to close the dooors?

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Does keying on mean that the door will not close if the driver decides to close the dooors?

Provided they enable the local door operation, yes.