Southern EMU order confirmed

[YorkshireBear]

Nah Christmas Eve.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Right Rail has an article on Crossrail and its Western end.
States that time is running out for the decision for Crossrail to reach Reading to be made. One of the problems is if Crossrail does terminate at Maidenhead then GW will need to run a Reading to Maidenhead shuttle service.
Reason for the time deadline is the Reading extension means 80% of the work planned for Maidenhead would no longer be required according to the article. Work is starting at Christmas.

This reads as though someone (DfT/TfL) is actively considering the Reading extension.
I think that its time has passed. There's too much going in elsewhere on the GW and NR has its hands full.
I suspect the new planning attention is being given to the Heathrow western access proposal, which will change many of the GW TV services anyway.
The Reading-Maidenhead service will hardly be a "shuttle", just calls in Paddington-TV services as now.

 

[swt_passenger]

There are references here and there to a Reading - Slough shuttle service (rather than Reading to Maidenhead), but the Rail report also seems confused in suggesting work starts at Christmas, cos I thought the track alterations for the Maidenhead Crossrail turn backs and stabling sidings have been underway for a few months now?

 

[Mintona]

Back on topic (ish) I've today heard a whisper that Southeastern are getting some 377s. I don't know how many or when though.

 

[hwl]

Back on topic (ish) I've today heard a whisper that Southeastern are getting some 377s. I don't know how many or when though.

377s or 377s and some extra carriages for 376s as well?

There have been rumours for several months about extra SE rolling stock but little substance.

377s makes the most sense as it would't add to the SE zoo of rolling stock.

Would this be a new order or exercising a (Southern) option with Bombardier?

 

[Bald Rick]

Just one previous owner....

 

[swt_passenger]

377s or 377s and some extra carriages for 376s as well?

There have been rumours for several months about extra SE rolling stock but little substance.

377s makes the most sense as it would't add to the SE zoo of rolling stock.

Would this be a new order or exercising a (Southern) option with Bombardier?

I'd suggest a cascade later in the Thameslink class 700 delivery. Significant numbers of 'Southern' routes will eventually be connected through the Thameslink core, and will no longer use Electrostars.

But even before that certain SE routes are supposed to transfer to full Thameslink operation, and they'll probably use 377s fir them as well. So SE effectively have less routes to operate but with the same stock.

 

[JamesRowden]

I'd suggest a cascade later in the Thameslink class 700 delivery. Significant numbers of 'Southern' routes will eventually be connected through the Thameslink core, and will no longer use Electrostars.

But even before that certain SE routes are supposed to transfer to full Thameslink operation, and they'll probably use 377s fir them as well. So SE effectively have less routes to operate but with the same stock.

The services that are transfering to full Thameslink operation before the Thameslink 2000 program is complete already use Thameslink stock.

 

[swt_passenger]

You're right. I'd thought there was a phased transfer of additional 'SE' services between 2014 and 2018, but reading the consultation again it seems not, the second batch is just shown as 2018 so will presumably happen at the same time as full Class 700 operation in the core.

 

[Class377/5]

You're right. I'd thought there was a phased transfer of additional 'SE' services between 2014 and 2018, but reading the consultation again it seems not, the second batch is just shown as 2018 so will presumably happen at the same time as full Class 700 operation in the core.

The original peak only 12 car Ashford/Tunbridge Wells services have been abandoned as it turned out they'd cause a reduction in tph to Cannon Street. So now those peak only services will be confined to routes of them BML.

In the meantime SE will 'lose' the 377/5 on the peak specials and it will go back to DC only rolling stock.

As for the fate of the 377/8s, well that's going to be up in the air for a long time yet but they will be a maximum of 3yrs old when they entire fleet is free.

 

[SF-02]

Not a surprise if SE get more stock. Management have hinted at it in recent months. The metro 12 car extension program is almost finished - platform lengthening for 12 car is almost complete, power upgrades as well, and out of the metro area the Gravesend rebuild is due to be finished next year. They do need more stock, many peak diagrams are not enough comprising of just 6 or even 4 cars. And only fair with SW trains announcing a new order and receiving cascaded stock, southern ordering more stock, FGW getting more stock with electrification, and the GA fleet expanding (presumably?) when crossrail and LO begin to take over routes in the coming years so hopefully SE get more as it needs it.

 

[anthony263]

Good if Southeastern get some new rolling stock to provide extra cpacity.

As for the class 377/8's with these expected to be 110mph capable I expect these to go to the GW services around Reading although some 3 carriage units will be need for the Thames Valley branches

 

[Class377/5]

Not a surprise if SE get more stock. Management have hinted at it in recent months. The metro 12 car extension program is almost finished - platform lengthening for 12 car is almost complete, power upgrades as well, and out of the metro area the Gravesend rebuild is due to be finished next year. They do need more stock, many peak diagrams are not enough comprising of just 6 or even 4 cars. And only fair with SW trains announcing a new order and receiving cascaded stock, southern ordering more stock, FGW getting more stock with electrification, and the GA fleet expanding (presumably?) when crossrail and LO begin to take over routes in the coming years so hopefully SE get more as it needs it.

The 12 car work is for London Bridge which will see a reduction in tph but increased length to provide the same capacity.

 

[swt_passenger]

SE have also announced some additional capacity from January 2014 (supposedly that the current 12 car scheme is allowing for), so in the absence of any new trains it must be achieved by higher utilisation of the existing fleets?

http://www.southeasternrailway.co.u...to-add-an-extra-3500-seats-from-january-2014/

 

[SF-02]

SE have already announced some additional capacity from January 2014 (supposedly that the current 12 car scheme is allowing for), so in the absence of any new trains it must be achieved by higher utilisation of the existing fleets?

http://www.southeasternrailway.co.u...to-add-an-extra-3500-seats-from-january-2014/

Yeah I saw that and am a bit confused as to where it applies and how it will be achieved. Not sure if it is for metro/Gillingham services mainly operated with Networkers, as many of those services are currently run with less than 10 cars (the current maximum) when more have been needed on some diagrams for years. As said some are even 4 or 6 which are packed. If the capacity could be gained using existing stock I have to wonder why they havn't done it before. Maybe the program of livery changes will be finished so less stock away but surely that wouldn't explain that many extra seats?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The 12 car work is for London Bridge which will see a reduction in tph but increased length to provide the same capacity.

That's one reason which has forced the program to speed up, but the need for longer trains, regardless of that pressing issue, has been known for years due to rising passenger numbers and the area SE serve planned to have some of the highest house building and population increases.

 

[swt_passenger]

Also noteworthy (given the earlier comparison with other SR TOCs), that SWT's current and future rolling stock changes are reported as providing 30,000 seats per peak, with 240 or more vehicles ultimately involved (once 458/460/456 and future order are totalled), whereas SE are talking about only 3,000 per peak...

 

[Class377/5]

SE have also announced some additional capacity from January 2014 (supposedly that the current 12 car scheme is allowing for), so in the absence of any new trains it must be achieved by higher utilisation of the existing fleets?

http://www.southeasternrailway.co.u...to-add-an-extra-3500-seats-from-january-2014/

Yes. Remember that as part of KO0 SE uses 377/5 and 319s for some of its services freeing up many different units. They used this to do work on the Networkers. Now the plan is to use some of these spare trains to get the extra seats.

That's one reason which has forced the program to speed up, but the need for longer trains, regardless of that pressing issue, has been known for years due to rising passenger numbers and the area SE serve planned to have some of the highest house building and population increases.

Yes and the current extensions were completed under the Thameslink Programme, irony is they wont get a Thameslink service as planned.

 

[D365]

It has been suggested that SE might get refurbished 319s and at least some of the '377/8s' go to GW where their 110mph capability will be beneficial.

 

[anthony263]

It has been suggested that SE might get refurbished 319s and at least some of the '377/8s' go to GW where their 110mph capability will be beneficial.

I heard the talk of that 377/8's going to GW. 1st I have heard of the class 319's going to South eastern however although it does seem like a good idea.

 

[SF-02]

Yes. Remember that as part of KO0 SE uses 377/5 and 319s for some of its services freeing up many different units. They used this to do work on the Networkers. Now the plan is to use some of these spare trains to get the extra seats.

Cheers for that. I thought the K01 program begun using 319 and 377/5 in 2009. Have SE had spare networkers since then?

 

[Class377/5]

Cheers for that. I thought the K01 program begun using 319 and 377/5 in 2009. Have SE had spare networkers since then?

KO0 started 2009
KO1 started 2011
KO2 will start in 2018

No they used the time to work on them with the Hitachi upgrade.

It has been suggested that SE might get refurbished 319s and at least some of the '377/8s' go to GW where their 110mph capability will be beneficial.

I heard the talk of that 377/8's going to GW. 1st I have heard of the class 319's going to South eastern however although it does seem like a good idea.

Its all rumors currently with nothing concrete.

319 to SE was mentioned in Modern Railways as a possibility as they need additional stock and are looking at everything.