Southern Axes Catering?

[Starmill]

I can't see a thread for this already, but it's reported by the BBC that Govia Thameslink Railway, the new operators of Southern and Gatwick Express trains from Sunday will no longer offer catering.

Southern Railways has been accused by a union of treating its workers like "dirt" after the sudden termination of its on-board trolley service.
The rail firm, which operates services around London, Sussex, Surrey, Kent and Hampshire, said most passengers bought food and drink at stations.
The RMT union said staff in Lewes and Brighton had been given just four days notice that the service would be axed.
Catering company Rail Gourmet confirmed the contract would end on Sunday.
Southern Railway joins the Govia Thameslink Railway franchise on the same date.
The RMT said 70 staff would lose their jobs.
General secretary Mick Cash said: "This disgraceful move is an attack on both our low paid members and the services that they provide to the travelling public and we are calling for it to be halted immediately before the staff are thrown out of their jobs."
A Southern spokesman said it was working with Rail Gourmet to help staff find employment.

BBC News

Just days ago, someone was saying to me that First Class on southern is about more than 'just getting a seat' because a free tea, coffee or water was available on services with a trolley. Presumably that is no more too?

 

[swt_passenger]

I can't see a thread for this already, but it's reported by the BBC that Govia Thameslink Railway, the new operators of Southern and Gatwick Express trains from Sunday will no longer offer catering.

It is covered at length in this thread:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=118326

confirmation in post #58, discussion followed...

 

[damo44]

Just days ago, someone was saying to me that First Class on southern is about more than 'just getting a seat' because a free tea, coffee or water was available on services with a trolley. Presumably that is no more too?

Not defending such short notice of job losses if that's true, but how many Southern routes actually had catering (in 1st class or elsewhere) and are affected by this? Aren't most of their routes quite short (around 1 hour) so maybe already without catering.

 

[ScotGG]

Sister Govia company Southeastern got rid of it last year I believe. London Midland got rid of it in 2011.

 

[yorksrob]

A very unfortunate development - speaking as someone who used to make use of the Ashford - Charing Cross trolley before it disappeared.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not defending such short notice of job losses if that's true, but how many Southern routes actually had catering (in 1st class or elsewhere) and are affected by this? Aren't most of their routes quite short (around 1 hour) so maybe already without catering.

You'd be surprised. Buffet cars lasted a lot longer on the Central division (early 90's) than the South Eastern (early 80's).

I guess the Sussexers are just more discerning about their morning cuppa

 

[Tetchytyke]

Yet another example of GoVia's race to the bottom in customer service.

How that set of shysters still have a single franchise is beyond me. I'm assuming dodgy deals cause it certainly isn't decided on competence.

 

[Bishopstone]

Not defending such short notice of job losses if that's true, but how many Southern routes actually had catering (in 1st class or elsewhere) and are affected by this? Aren't most of their routes quite short (around 1 hour) so maybe already without catering.

Gatwick Express, Brighton Expresses and Coastway. On the latter the trolley base was Lewes, but because of joining/splitting at Haywards Heath, the West Coastway portion was also covered.

 

[GatwickDepress]

Not defending such short notice of job losses if that's true, but how many Southern routes actually had catering (in 1st class or elsewhere) and are affected by this? Aren't most of their routes quite short (around 1 hour) so maybe already without catering.

Some Brighton, Gatwick Express, and Littlehampton/Ore and Bognor Regis/Eastbourne services have (had in a few days) catering. Although Gatwick Express often always advertised a trolley service, I very rarely saw a trolley actually on there.

In the case of the Coastway services, this took the form of a trolley boarding at Lewes and making its way through the train.

From Ore and Bognor Regis, services to London Victoria are around 2 hours end-to-end. Ore lacks any facilities whatsoever, so being rather selfish here, I don't have anywhere to buy a hot drink on my way up to the big smoke.

 

[damo44]

You'd be surprised. Buffet cars lasted a lot longer on the Central division (early 90's) than the South Eastern (early 80's).

Fair enough. These days I don't need to make long early morning train journeys very often, but I'm sure that when I did in the past, I would have a hot drink before leaving home, or failing that at the local station. If the station didn't have facilities I would wait until my destination.

 

[yorksrob]

Fair enough. These days I don't need to make long early morning train journeys very often, but I'm sure that when I did in the past, I would have a hot drink before leaving home, or failing that at the local station. If the station didn't have facilities I would wait until my destination.

I suppose it depends on where you get on and off.

I think if I had a trolley on my 35 min commute, I'd get a cuppa in the morning (particularly as it's a fifteen minute walk from my house). Going back though, I'd stick to a cheap tea from Maccy D's.

 

[deltic]

Yet another example of GoVia's race to the bottom in customer service.

How that set of shysters still have a single franchise is beyond me. I'm assuming dodgy deals cause it certainly isn't decided on competence.

Its called offering the best deal to the Treasury - scrapping loss making catering services enables the company to provide that best deal. There are no dodgy deals in rail franchising.

 

[Starmill]

Its called offering the best deal to the Treasury - scrapping loss making catering services enables the company to provide that best deal. There are no dodgy deals in rail franchising.

Your first sentence I can agree with, in a way (but wouldn't say that on balance the removal of all catering is the answer, nor is it acceptable for the staff to have been treated in this way). Your second however is another matter entirely!

 

[Carlisle]

Sister Govia company Southeastern got rid of it last year I believe. London Midland got rid of it in 2011.

It's another sad example of the post privatisation two tier railway , where companies like Govia ,Northern etc publicly claim to have good relations with their unions and wouldn't dream of treating their own drivers, Guards etc like this but quietly are only too willing to take full advantage of the law and lack of Union power and influence to treat some of their contractors and agency staff like the lowest form of dirt

 

[danielson00]

I used to work for Rail Gourmet in 2002/3 on SWT doing Bournemouth to Waterloo.

I am no expert on employment law but I was employed by Rail Gourmet and had nothing to do with South West Trains (from an employment point of view) . So in this case, I assume the catering staff are Rail Gourmet employees and will have to be given some sort of notice period?

 

[455driver]

If the contract is up for renewal with Rail Gourmet then GoVia might have decided not to renew it so no notice period would be given, what the notice period is between RG and the staff is for them to sort out.

Its a pity they are not in a union, oh wait a minute all unions are militant, Marxist morons out to make mischief aren't they! :roll:

 

[Starmill]

Wording by the BBC certainly implies that the contract is up for renewal, and that'd be logical as the previous Southern franchise could have signed one with Rail Gourmet years ago up to their franchise end date.

This brings about the question, is it acceptable for Rail Gourmet to have staff on 'until XYZ date' with no work beyond that date? Sounds like a temporary post to me.

 

[Bishopstone]

I am no expert on employment law but I was employed by Rail Gourmet and had nothing to do with South West Trains (from an employment point of view) . So in this case, I assume the catering staff are Rail Gourmet employees and will have to be given some sort of notice period?

Indeed. The Rail Gourmet staff will be paid for whatever notice period they have under their employment contracts - or found suitable alternative work by Rail Gourmet.

This is a separate matter to the contract Rail Gourmet have with Southern. There may be no work beyond Saturday, but if so the employees will be paid whilst sitting at home, if necessary, to the end of their notice periods.

 

[3141]

Yet another example of GoVia's race to the bottom in customer service.

How that set of shysters still have a single franchise is beyond me. I'm assuming dodgy deals cause it certainly isn't decided on competence.

I think your frequent reaction is to assume there's something dodgy. I can't see how axing the catering in July 2015 indicates there was anything dodgy about how they won the franchise last year. But for the staff of Rail Gourmet it's a tough situation.

However, there is a another issue. Lots of people do buy food at outlets at the station where they join the train. That gives them a much wider choice than any trolley can offer. When I travel on a busy SWT service from Waterloo to Overton the trolley never gets to the front of the train, either because of the number of purchasers on its way to the front, or more likely because it just can't get through. That's on six or nine coaches. There must be a similar problem on many 12-coach Southern services. The proliferation of food outlets at the bigger stations, and the greater crowding on many trains, raise implications for the provision of on-board trolleys.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Assuming they are employees. In the past some trolley staff have been self employed.

 

[GatwickDepress]

Southern's catering page says:

We are working with Rail Gourmet to help their staff find employment with us going forward and we are prioritising their displaced staff in our application process.

 

[transmanche]

The proliferation of food outlets at the bigger stations, and the greater crowding on many trains, raise implications for the provision of on-board trolleys.

The problem with trolley catering is that a) you can never be sure if there will be a trolley on-board for your part of the journey b) you don't know what food (if any) is available - whereas large stations often have multiple options for food purchase. So do you buy before you board, or risk it on the train?

 

[crosscity]

I lived in Brighton in 1978 and remember catching an evening rush hour train from Victoria, on which you could buy modestly priced hot buttered toast and tea from the buffet. It was always popular with commuters and very civilised, especially in winter.

Do todays' commuters not value the ability to save time on the way home and buy a snack and hot drink on the train?

I realise hot toast can't be served from a trolley, but nonetheless it's sad that the TOC doesn't think there is enough profit to be made.

 

[Agent_c]

The problem with trolley catering is that a) you can never be sure if there will be a trolley on-board for your part of the journey b) you don't know what food (if any) is available - whereas large stations often have multiple options for food purchase. So do you buy before you board, or risk it on the train?

Is this before we get to a quality/temperature issue?

 

[physics34]

Yet another example of GoVia's race to the bottom in customer service.

How that set of shysters still have a single franchise is beyond me. I'm assuming dodgy deals cause it certainly isn't decided on competence.

cos they make money and they are good at doing so.

 

[Robertj21a]

If the contract is up for renewal with Rail Gourmet then GoVia might have decided not to renew it so no notice period would be given, what the notice period is between RG and the staff is for them to sort out.

Its a pity they are not in a union, oh wait a minute all unions are militant, Marxist morons out to make mischief aren't they! :roll:

I know you're 'tongue in cheek' but I don't anybody has ever said that all unions are militant - it's probably just 2-3........

 

[TimG]

I lived in Brighton in 1978 and remember catching an evening rush hour train from Victoria, on which you could buy modestly priced hot buttered toast and tea from the buffet. It was always popular with commuters and very civilised, especially in winter.

Do todays' commuters not value the ability to save time on the way home and buy a snack and hot drink on the train?

I realise hot toast can't be served from a trolley, but nonetheless it's sad that the TOC doesn't think there is enough profit to be made.

At the very peak, rush hour trains from London Bridge are often standing all the way to Haywards Heath. It's not practical.
Even in rush hour you can pop into the Tooley street tesco or More London m&s and be served almost instantly.

 

[yorksrob]

I see that The Times has written a moving paean to the railway buffet trolley as one of its leading articles.

It seems that this withdrawal is becoming National news!

 

[bnm]

I know you're 'tongue in cheek' but I don't anybody has ever said that all unions are militant - it's probably just 2-3........

RMT, ASLEF, and possibly TSSA?

 

[Bishopstone]

At the very peak, rush hour trains from London Bridge are often standing all the way to Haywards Heath. It's not practical.

Which may be why there were no trolleys on London Bridge services.

What is missing at/near London Bridge is somewhere to get a take-away 'builders tea' for less than the £2.50 Cafe Nero, Uppercrust etc charge.

 

[gtr driver]

Which may be why there were no trolleys on London Bridge services.

What is missing at/near London Bridge is somewhere to get a take-away 'builders tea' for less than the £2.50 Cafe Nero, Uppercrust etc charge.

Alongside both these places at the Bridge is the Bread Box where drinks are available for £1. No substitute for on train catering too though. Another step in the race to the bottom.