Southend Airport to London return

[YorkC]

I'm doing this journey (SIA->London on Friday evening, London->SIA Sunday morning) at the weekend and I'm trying to work out my best route/fare options. I need to end up in Brixton (underground) but let's just say any ticket to Central London will do.

Putting this into the VTEC journey planner, I'm offered a return for £25 involving an outward journey from SIA to Liverpool Street (direct) but with no direct return journey, seemingly due to engineering work. What I can get is a journey of 1hr 50m (Liverpool Street Underground -> Newbury Park Underground, replacement bus Newbury Park -> Billericay, train Billericay -> Southend Airport).

There's also a greyed out option of 1hr 28m with no replacement bus from Fenchurch Street to Southend Airport with a walk in between from Central to Victoria in Southend.

The £25 ticket I'm offered appears to be Southend Airport -> London Liverpool Street, routed via Shenfield. There doesn't seem to be any return routed Any Permitted, or any return routed to London Terminals or Fenchurch Street.

If I put in SIA -> London Victoria return, I'm offered a via Shenfield ticket for £30.80 with an itinerary that involves Fenchurch Street and the walk between the Southend stations on the return leg, but which doesn't actually appear to go via Shenfield (& doesn't appear if I choose via Shenfield in the journey planner...).

Does anyone know of the best/cheapest option that would enable me to go from SIA to Liverpool Street direct on the outbound, and Fenchurch Street to SIA on the return? I'd just take the £30.80 option SIA->VIC & I know theoretically I shouldn't have problems presenting an itinerary, but I'm not sure in practice how this would go, & I'm open to any better ideas.

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[YorkC]

Trying a few London stations, I've got Southend Airport - Finsbury Park at £27, routed +Any Permitted. That seems to work via Liverpool Street and Fenchurch Street. What a ridiculous ticket to have to buy. If anyone has got any better ideas, let me know.

 

[swt class 450]

You could get one of these tickets.

Southend Airport to London Z1 to Z6 travelcard.
http://www.brfares.com/#expert?orig=SIA&dest=0035

Southend Airport to Brixton.
http://www.brfares.com/#expert?orig=SIA&dest=BRX

There indeed doesnt seem to be any fares routed to London Terminals.

All these fares are only routed to London Liverpool Street.
http://www.brfares.com/#expert?orig=SIA&dest=LST

The Southend Airport to London Z1 to Z6 Travelcard might be the best option as it will give you the largest choice of routes.

 

[YorkC]

Cheers for the reply. Problem is that those travelcard tickets are only valid for one day, aren't they?

I've had problems with tickets routed to Brixton in the past, because seemingly "Brixton" means Brixton (National Rail) and not Brixton Underground, even though there's nothing on the ticket to say so and for other stations (e.g. Tottenham Hale) tickets can be used either on the underground or on National Rail.

This does seem a pretty ludicrous situation for someone not halfway well-versed in UK train fares really -- especially for a ticket from an airport! -- to be told you can't travel via the quickest route on the only obvious ticket for your journey.

 

[swt class 450]

Cheers for the reply. Problem is that those travelcard tickets are only valid for one day, aren't they?

I've had problems with tickets routed to Brixton in the past, because seemingly "Brixton" means Brixton (National Rail) and not Brixton Underground, even though there's nothing on the ticket to say so and for other stations (e.g. Tottenham Hale) tickets can be used either on the underground or on National Rail.

This does seem a pretty ludicrous situation for someone not halfway well-versed in UK train fares really -- especially for a ticket from an airport! -- to be told you can't travel via the quickest route on the only obvious ticket for your journey.

With the Southend Airport to Brixton tickets they would be valid to take a train to London Liverpool Street or London Fenchurch Street followed by the London Underground to London Victoria followed by a Southeastern train to Brixton which might be a good option (it shouldnt take that much longer than LU).

Otherwise if you want to use London Underground to Brixton you could buy two of those travelcard tickets (one for each day) although that would be a lot more expensive.

 

[YorkC]

With the Southend Airport to Brixton tickets they would be valid to take a train to London Liverpool Street or London Fenchurch Street followed by the London Underground to London Victoria followed by a Southeastern train to Brixton which might be a good option (it shouldnt take that much longer than LU).

Otherwise if you want to use London Underground to Brixton you could buy two of those travelcard tickets (one for each day) although that would be a lot more expensive.

The SIA-BRX ticket is £35, so it'll be cheaper for me to buy a SIA-FPK return at £27, stop short at Liverpool Street on the way out, start long at Fenchurch Street on the way back, and do two journeys on Oyster at £2.40 each for the other bits of the journey I need to do. Thanks for the replies, though.

 

[Joe Paxton]

I've had problems with tickets routed to Brixton in the past, because seemingly "Brixton" means Brixton (National Rail) and not Brixton Underground, even though there's nothing on the ticket to say so and for other stations (e.g. Tottenham Hale) tickets can be used either on the underground or on National Rail.

Tottenham Hale from central London is legit because ticketing is "inter-available", that is rail tickets can be used on the Tube, and LU tickets can be used on the railway.

One used to be able to download a PDF of the relevant section of the NFM which detailed these inter-availability arrangements from the ATOC website, and also the annual TfL Fares booklets (no longer published) used to provide some information. As for nowadays, er...

Anyway, rail tickets to say Bethnal Green, Balham, Wimbledon and Richmond cannot be used (or at least are not valid) on the Underground to get there. On a rail ticket, the destination needs to be "U1", "U12" etc (when coming from central London) depending upon what zone the destination Underground station is in (and Brixton is zone 2, so one would need "U12").

 

[YorkC]

Tottenham Hale from central London is legit because ticketing is "inter-available", that is rail tickets can be used on the Tube, and LU tickets can be used on the railway.

One used to be able to download a PDF of the relevant section of the NFM which detailed these inter-availability arrangements from the ATOC website, and also the annual TfL Fares booklets (no longer published) used to provide some information. As for nowadays, er...

Yeah -- I would have less of a problem if there was some way to easily find out the arrangements. As it was (in the case detailed in that thread) I couldn't get an itinerary online, asked at the desk in York if I could use that ticket on the Underground to Brixton from Victoria and was told I could. It seems pretty daft that a destination printed on a ticket can sometimes mean LU/NR and sometimes not, with no simple way to find out.

 

[Joe Paxton]

... It seems pretty daft that a destination printed on a ticket can sometimes mean LU/NR and sometimes not, with no simple way to find out.

It's the exception, rather than the rule.

As a general rule of thumb, a named destination on a ticket refers to the NR station, reached via an NR train.

I agree it'd be great if information on this was available out there publicly!

 

[greatkingrat]

You could buy a ticket to Herne Hill which would be valid via LU to Brixton then SE to Herne Hill and then stop short at Brixton.

 

[Joe Paxton]

You could buy a ticket to Herne Hill which would be valid via LU to Brixton then SE to Herne Hill and then stop short at Brixton.

I hadn't totally appreciated that Brixton LU station is included in this list (which is a separate consideration to LU/NR ticket inter-availability).

Given that, I'm a bit surprised the ticket didn't just work the gates, given it would have had a "+" cross London marker.

Besides, one could argue that you were completing your journey to Brixton NR station by foot given that it's just around the corner from Brixton tube station!

I expect the member of LU staff on the gateline either didn't notice the "+" cross London marker on the ticket and/or didn't really understand the cross London system and that Brixton tube station was part of it, otherwise I don't think they'd have kicked up a fuss (even if by a strict interpretation the ticket wasn't valid).

Like greatkingrat says, a ticket to Herne Hill would unambiguously be valid and shouldn't cost any more.