Southeastern worker let untrained friend dispatch trains

[Dieseldriver]

Maybe the reason no-one was hurt was entirely down to the fact that no situation occurred which could have caused that? Just because nothing happened, it does not mean there was not a potential for a serious incident.

 

[Tomnick]

Indeed, my job's dead easy when it's all going well - I'm sure, given an hour or so, I could show the average chap off the street how to signal trains in each direction normally. When an emergency situation arises, a fault needs to be worked around or trains need to be regulated out of booked order though...

 

[12CSVT]

Maybe the reason no-one was hurt was entirely down to the fact that no situation occurred which could have caused that? Just because nothing happened, it does not mean there was not a potential for a serious incident.

Without condoning what they did, maybe the imposter was always conscious of the fact that what he was doing was wrong, and was extra-vigilant not to make any errors.

 

[Dieseldriver]

So trained railway staff aren't extra vigilant to not make errors?

 

[Tomnick]

It wouldn't even have to be an error on the imposter's part for them to suddenly be playing their part in avoiding a 'situation' developing. He might have known how to dispatch a train normally, but would he then know how to stop it if something went wrong as it departed...?

 

[12CSVT]

So trained railway staff aren't extra vigilant to not make errors?

I didn't imply that at all. Just referring to the fact that he knew if he did make a slip up, the consequences would be more severe than the usual withdrawal of SCWID card, retraining etc

In almost 25 years of working on the railway, I have seen all sorts of dispatch errors, including a station manager giving RA in error instead of CD.

 

[CatfordCat]

Probably a naive question from an SE suburban traveller, but what do platform staff actually do if a situation (e.g. the drunk passenger rushing up to the train as it starts to move that someone has floated earlier in the thread) arises after they have given the 'RA' and the train has started moving?

 

[Dieseldriver]

I didn't imply that at all. Just referring to the fact that he knew if he did make a slip up, the consequences would be more severe than the usual withdrawal of SCWID card, retraining etc

In almost 25 years of working on the railway, I have seen all sorts of dispatch errors, including a station manager giving RA in error instead of CD.

Could have made it a bit clearer, what I was getting at was if highly trained staff with proper knowledge and experience are capable of getting it wrong, he was basically running on luck.

 

[bnm]

From the ''News Shopper'' [what a bizarre name for a newspaper]

"Shopper" was once quite a common name (or part name) for a free local newspaper that carried a large proportion of advertising. Not so common now, but there are still a few out there.

 

[Searle]

Probably a naive question from an SE suburban traveller, but what do platform staff actually do if a situation (e.g. the drunk passenger rushing up to the train as it starts to move that someone has floated earlier in the thread) arises after they have given the 'RA' and the train has started moving?

The best I've seen in someone walking up to a moving train is for them to shout very loudly to step away from the train

 

[CatfordCat]

The best I've seen in someone walking up to a moving train is for them to shout very loudly to step away from the train

That is of course better than nothing!

I am aware that some London Underground lines have or did have 'emergency stop' plungers on platform walls - which presumably either show an emergency signal aspect or cut the traction current.

Do SE Trains stations where there's 'RA' indication have similar?

 

[A-driver]

That is of course better than nothing!

I am aware that some London Underground lines have or did have 'emergency stop' plungers on platform walls - which presumably either show an emergency signal aspect or cut the traction current.

Do SE Trains stations where there's 'RA' indication have similar?

No. Once the RA is given it can't be taken back unless the signal is reverted to red. But if the driver has already passed the signal then they won't see this anyway.

The only way to stop a train that has started moving us to phone the signaller who can then radio the driver to stop.

 

[Dieseldriver]

The emergency stop plungers on LUL platforms are only possible due to the signalling systems. I am aware of them on Central line, also think they are on Victoria (possibly Jubilee?). The signalling system basically operates with 'codes' being transmitted to the train via the infrastructure, a failsafe feature of this (signalling always being failsafe) is that if no code is being received, this will initiate an emergency brake application on the train. These stop plungers basically destroy the code so that the train will stop.

 

[swj99]

The deception could have led to a crash and passenger deaths if a train had been cleared to leave Denmark Hill station at the wrong moment, Westminster Magistrates' Court heard last Tuesday.

Chair of the bench Spyros Elia told Oyesanya it was “but for the will of God that somebody wasn't injured, perhaps even fatally, and maybe more than one person.”

That's also a reasonable point, but I wonder what the impostor's level of competence actually was. I suppose we''re unlikely to find out, but it would be interesting nevertheless to know how his competence would have compared to someone who'd had the official training and actually got the licence to do the job.

Without condoning what they did, maybe the imposter was always conscious of the fact that what he was doing was wrong, and was extra-vigilant not to make any errors.

I'm sure the thought went through his mind. I'm not laughing at your comment but it reminds me of a Jim Davisdon joke about the bloke who was pulled over for driving in an exemplary fashion late one night. His explanation to police was that "you've got to drive carefully when you've had a few !".

 

[Goatboy]

So trained railway staff aren't extra vigilant to not make errors?

Few people will always be extra vigilant when carrying out routine work - thats just human nature.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Few people will always be extra vigilant when carrying out routine work - thats just human nature.

When lives are at stake, even the most routine work is normally carried out with the greatest of vigilance.

 

[A-driver]

When lives are at stake, even the most routine work is normally carried out with the greatest of vigilance.

I think the point is that there is routine vigilance where you are comfortable with the task and its is almost second nature (driving a train comes under this where you arnt really thinking about what you are doing-not always a good thing but human nature) and then there is the extra vigilance you will take if doing a task you arnt so familiar with.