Southeastern witness statement MG11 issued

[LadyOrange]

Hi all by way of update I received a court summons today. Looks like they didn’t accept my previous letter.

I found a previous case on here with similar circumstances and in the end saw that Southeastern accepted his settlement letter but he had to write 3 times.

I have looked into legal advice but looks like this will be extremely expensive given the fine Southeastern want me to pay is the fare £8.10 and £150 admin fees.

My question to this forum is do you think it would be acceptable to call them and ask if it’s possible to settle this out of court? I don’t want to do this if it’s going to get me into more trouble or if a letter would be better.

For the sake of my anxiety I may just go down solicitor route but would appreciate your comments none the less

 

[island]

I have looked into legal advice but looks like this will be extremely expensive given the fine Southeastern want me to pay is the fare £8.10 and £150 admin fees.

If you are convicted in court, you will have to pay those sums plus a fine set by the court and a surcharge. The average is £616, but it can be higher or lower depending on your income and whether you choose to plead guilty. But what is certain is that it will not just be £158.10.

 

[LadyOrange]

Okay good to know thank you. Will I also get a criminal record?

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi all by way of update I received a court summons today. Looks like they didn’t accept my previous letter.

I found a previous case on here with similar circumstances and in the end saw that Southeastern accepted his settlement letter but he had to write 3 times.

I have looked into legal advice but looks like this will be extremely expensive given the fine Southeastern want me to pay is the fare £8.10 and £150 admin fees.

My question to this forum is do you think it would be acceptable to call them and ask if it’s possible to settle this out of court? I don’t want to do this if it’s going to get me into more trouble or if a letter would be better.

For the sake of my anxiety I may just go down solicitor route but would appreciate your comments none the less

Firstly - do you have confidence they actually got your previous letter asking to settle it out of court? - we see cases where it becomes clear that such letters can get lost so they have missed your response or lost it etc. did they reply in any way or has the court summons come out of the blue? This may be worth ringing and asking about to start off with if you can get through on the phone.

Do you have proof of what you sent being delivered (eg postal signed for for example)?

Secondly - you have nothing to loose by asking again - writing to them / e-mailing again with your request to settle. I don't think ringing or writing to them will get you into more trouble then being listed for a court prosecution.

Thirdly I doubt that ringing them will work as a way of getting a settlement unless you can get through to a person dealing with your case who has the power to agree to a settlement when you ring - but perhaps that is something you could try, because you could then also follow it up with a letter / e-mail. It would be better to write again or e-mail

How long until the court summons date for court? That is the window you have to ask them. We also hear of people going to court on the day and seeking out the prosecutor to see if a settlement can be made at the last minute.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Aug 2024 ==

Okay good to know thank you. Will I also get a criminal record?

Yes, if you are found guilty by the court (or plead guilty) you would have a criminal record. People can give you more advice on that if it came to it, but you are likely to have to declare it to employers etc

 

[LadyOrange]

They didn’t reply in any way this is the first I’ve heard from them since I sent the letter. They also sent it to my next door neighbour when I gave them my correct door number so I wondered why it went there again. Maybe they didn’t receive it. I did sent it recorded delivery but for the life of me I can’t remember where I put the receipt. I had Covid at the time as was quite unwell. Typical….. I’ll try calling them

 

[WesternLancer]

They didn’t reply in any way this is the first I’ve heard from them since I sent the letter. They also sent it to my next door neighbour when I gave them my correct door number so I wondered why it went there again. Maybe they didn’t receive it. I did sent it recorded delivery but for the life of me I can’t remember where I put the receipt. I had Covid at the time as was quite unwell. Typical….. I’ll try calling them

I think you need to contact them urgently and start off with checking if they got your original letter.

If you cant get through by phone it may be possible that someone here has an e-mail address for SE Trains prosecution office

Post #31 of this thread (albeit from 2023 so may not be up to date) includes a copy of a letter uploaded from SE Trains prosecutions team - although the postal address is obscured, there is an e-mail address listed in the body of the letter for them - in case that is any use to you

Urgent help needed to draft response for out of court settlement please?

Hi all I received this letter on Tuesday and have been trying to contact solicitors for advice. I noticed the date the letter was sent was Friday (27th) the letter says to respond in 7days and I have been advised I need to respond by Friday. Please can someone help draft an email requesting for...

www.railforums.co.uk

Incidentally - did your original letter look like that one - and did it have an e-mail address you could use?

By the way - I think it will be SE Trains Prosecutions Team (not Customer Services) you need to ring / contact - not the court that has issued the summons

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hi all by way of update I received a court summons today.

Just so that we can make sure that we're up to speed, please could you show us what you have been sent? As always, please hide your personal details, reference numbers etc.

 

[LadyOrange]

I found the proof of delivery it was on my last searched history from Royal Mail so I knew it had been signed for on 18th July. Whether that was passed on to the correct department I’m not sure

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Aug 2024 ==

The original letter of intention to prosecute included an email address and so I will try that in the first instance to check if they did indeed receive my letter

 

[WesternLancer]

I found the proof of delivery it was on my last searched history from Royal Mail so I knew it had been signed for on 18th July. Whether that was passed on to the correct department I’m not sure

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Aug 2024 ==

The original letter of intention to prosecute included an email address and so I will try that in the first instance to check if they did indeed receive my letter

If you can - attach a copy of the reply you sent originally to your e-mail asking them if they got it.

When is the court date you have been given? That is the time widow you have to try to resolve it out of court basically.

 

[LadyOrange]

Thanks will do. 28th August

 

[AlterEgo]

I am confident they will settle if there are no other factors you've not told us about. It does seem very much like the relevant department didn't get your letter.

 

[LadyOrange]

It says in the court summons that I admitted my intention was to avoid payment under caution. I’m not sure if that’s why they proceeded? Maybe they did receive my letter?

 

[Hadders]

I agree with other forum members who have suggested contacting Southeastern’s Prosecutions office as a matter of urgency.

It is unusual for them not to offer a settlement and I suspect the Prosecutions office might not have received your letter, despite you having confirmation that it was delivered.

 

[LadyOrange]

This is my email reply:

Dear Sir/Madam

I am writing regarding the above case reference number. I received a court summons today. Can I please check if you received my letter, which was delivered to the address below on 18 July 2024 in response to your original letter to me dated 5 July 2024?

Southeastern Prosecutions
PO Box 601
ASHFORD
TN23 9XZ

I am checking because I didn’t receive any acknowledgement or response, and then a court summons was delivered to my neighbour’s address (xx) and not to my address (xx) after I updated this on the bottom half of your letter along with my response.

I have attached a copy of Royal Mail's proof of delivery for your information as well as my response letter.

I am pleading that we settle this matter out of court and would happily pay all fees, including administrative and compensation costs.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully,
XX

 

[WesternLancer]

It says in the court summons that I admitted my intention was to avoid payment under caution. I’m not sure if that’s why they proceeded? Maybe they did receive my letter?

I don't think that would be the deciding factor that would make them proceed to court action. They could get a guilty verdict if they wanted just by virtue of the fact that you travelled without a valid ticket - even if you had not indicated an intention to do so.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Aug 2024 ==

This is my email reply:

Dear Sir/Madam

I am writing regarding the above case reference number. I received a court summons today. Can I please check if you received my letter, which was delivered to the address below on 18 July 2024 in response to your original letter to me dated 5 July 2024?

Southeastern Prosecutions
PO Box 601
ASHFORD
TN23 9XZ

I am checking because I didn’t receive any acknowledgement or response, and then a court summons was delivered to my neighbour’s address (xx) and not to my address (xx) after I updated this on the bottom half of your letter along with my response.

I have attached a copy of Royal Mail's proof of delivery for your information as well as my response letter.

I am pleading that we settle this matter out of court and would happily pay all fees, including administrative and compensation costs.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully,
XX

suggested minor adjustment (in bold for your ref)

Dear Sir/Madam

I am writing regarding the above case reference number. I received a court summons today. Can I please check if you received my letter, which was delivered to the address below on 18 July 2024 in response to your original letter to me dated 5 July 2024?

Southeastern Prosecutions
PO Box 601
ASHFORD
TN23 9XZ

I am checking because I didn’t receive any acknowledgement or response, and then a court summons was delivered to my neighbour’s address (xx) and not to my address (xx) after I updated this on the bottom half of your letter along with my response.

I have attached a copy of Royal Mail's proof of delivery for your information as well as my response letter.

I am pleading that we settle this matter out of court and would happily pay all fees, including administrative and compensation costs and costs of fares owed.

I would be most grateful if you could look again at my original letter (as attached) in the hope that you would be sympathetic to my request to settle the matter without court action. I look forward to hearing from you.

My e-mail address is:
My phone number is:
My correct postal address is (please note correct house number)

Yours faithfully,

 

[LadyOrange]

Should I put fares owed? I’m a bit nervous about that wording given there’s more journeys on my Trainline account if they looked. I haven’t mentioned it in any of my letters because the incident in question is singular and they haven’t asked about other journeys

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Aug 2024 ==

Hi all. Thanks so much for your help. I’m going to send the below because the fares wording I didn’t like. Will keep you posted as always. Have a lovely evening.

Dear Sir/Madam

I am writing regarding the above case reference number. I received a court summons today. Can I please check if you received my letter, which was delivered to the address below on 18 July 2024 in response to your original letter to me dated 5 July 2024?

Southeastern Prosecutions
PO Box 601
ASHFORD
TN23 9XZ

I am checking because I didn’t receive any acknowledgement or response, and then a court summons was delivered to my neighbour’s address (xx) and not to my address (xx) after I updated this on the bottom half of your letter along with my response.

I have attached a copy of Royal Mail's proof of delivery for your information as well as my response letter.

I am pleading that we settle this matter out of court and would happily pay all fees, including administrative a compensation costs.

I would be most grateful if you could look again at my original letter (as attached) in the hope that you would be sympathetic to my request to settle the matter without court action. I look forward to hearing from you.

My e-mail address is:
My phone number is:
My correct postal address is (please note correct house number)

Yours faithfully,

 

[Hadders]

Should I put fares owed? I’m a bit nervous about that wording given there’s more journeys on my Trainline account if they looked. I haven’t mentioned it in any of my letters because the incident in question is singular and they haven’t asked about other journeys

I really don't think it matters. The wider point here is will they agree to settle out of court?

 

[LadyOrange]

Thank you!

 

[Greyman1]

Can you upload what they sent you as a response please?

 

[LadyOrange]

I will do. Thanks all!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Aug 2024 ==

Hi all this will be my last message to this group. I am thrilled to announce they have agreed to settle out of court. The address I think they gave me was incorrect so they didn’t receive my letter. They responded to the email after 3 hours. I sent it about 9am this morning.

Thank you to each and every one of you for taking the time to read each post and advise. It has been extremely appreciated.

I was keen to update you as and when so that you have all the information to advise anyone else who may be in a similar situation in the future.

I can assure you I will never do this again. Thank you once more and have a lovely weekend.

 

[WesternLancer]

I will do. Thanks all!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Aug 2024 ==

Hi all this will be my last message to this group. I am thrilled to announce they have agreed to settle out of court. The address I think they gave me was incorrect so they didn’t receive my letter. They responded to the email after 3 hours. I sent it about 9am this morning.

Thank you to each and every one of you for taking the time to read each post and advise. It has been extremely appreciated.

I was keen to update you as and when so that you have all the information to advise anyone else who may be in a similar situation in the future.

I can assure you I will never do this again. Thank you once more and have a lovely weekend.

Good news - your update has only just been uploaded to view I think but pleased to hear you have been able to resolve this.

If you still read this there may be some follow ups you could / should do.
1) keep their written response of the settlement agreement for your proof - be prepared to keep this for a while (at least over a year)

2) check with the court before that hearing date you were given that the railway have advised the court that the case is dropped and the court no longer have it listed for a hearing. This is important to do to be sure it does not just progress at court 'automatically' because if it did I think it is not easy to get that undone.

Get confirmation in writing and keep it safe.

 

[LadyOrange]

Thank you very much. I already have in writing that the case has been withdrawn as I paid straight away and sent them a copy of the receipt. I will also ring the court to double check this has been dropped next week.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you very much. I already have in writing that the case has been withdrawn as I paid straight away and sent them a copy of the receipt. I will also ring the court to double check this has been dropped next week.

Good stuff - yes ringing the court to check this would be the thing to do for your peace of mind.

 

[LadyOrange]

Have a lovely weekend!!

 

[Wolfie]

@LadyOrange might it be possible for you to advise on what they requested in terms of a settlement. Might be informative for others who find themselves in the same boat. Thanks.

You got the best possible result. Please ensure though that you are scrupulous with tickets going forward.

 

[LadyOrange]

Sorry, so this isn’t over?

 

[Wolfie]

Sorry, so this isn’t over?

If you were replying to me, this issue, subject to the engagement with the Court suggested being positive, is over. However the fact that you have been caught and offered a settlement will be on record. In the event that you were caught doing something similar again prosecution would be highly likely.

 

[LadyOrange]

@LadyOrange might it be possible for you to advise on what they requested in terms of a settlement. Might be informative for others who find themselves in the same boat. Thanks.

You got the best possible result. Please ensure though that you are scrupulous with tickets going forward.

Yes of course. They requested I paid £150 admin fee and £8.10 for the fare so it was £158.10 in total.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Aug 2024 ==

If you were replying to me, this issue, subject to the engagement with the Court suggested being positive, is over. However the fact that you have been caught and offered a settlement will be on record. In the event that you were caught doing something similar again prosecution would be highly likely.

Understood. This won’t happen again.

 

[Wolfie]

Yes of course. They requested I paid £150 admin fee and £8.10 for the fare so it was £158.10 in total.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Aug 2024 ==


Understood. This won’t happen again.

That is an extremely good result - the other 27 dodged fares at £8.10 a time amounted to more than the admin fee charged... You got incredibly lucky.