Southeastern Trains Prosecution

[Silks100]

So this morning i got on at Barnehurst train station, but as i was running late i ran straight through the side entrance and didn't purchase a ticket. When i got off at London Charing Cross, I walked out of the side exit but as i was walking down the stairs i saw there were ticket inspectors. On seeing the inspectors it clocked in my head that i didn't have a ticket (i usually go out this exit with my daily return ticket). I turned round to walk back up the stairs and go to the main exit, where i could by a ticket and explain the situation. On turning around, a BTP officer in normal clothes stopped me and asked if i had a ticket. I explained i didn't and he proceeded to caution me and take my details.

I have been stopped earlier this year, which was a dispute about my Oyster and eventually i just paid the £20 fine on the spot. So with that against me, its likely any out of court settlement offer will simply be ignored.

This was a genuine mistake, and the bloke that took my details understood that but still took my details and said id receive a letter shortly with intent of taking me to court.

Does anyone know how much i'm likely to have to pay?

My missus has just been made redundant, we have a young child and its Christmas coming up. I don't intend to sound all Tiny Tim from a Christmas Carol, but i could really do without this. I know i'm just going to have to plead guilty and swallow it along with a criminal record, but i just wondered what a ball park figure will be?

 

[cuccir]

This was a genuine mistake, and the bloke that took my details understood that but still took my details and said id receive a letter shortly with intent of taking me to court.

What was a mistake? Not buying a ticket, or getting caught?

Apologies for being a bit flippant, but your actions have little in the way of mitigation to them. You don't explain why you didn't buy a ticket at Barnehurst, or touch-in with your Oyster, or attempt to buy a ticket on the train, or attempt to buy a ticket up to the point at which you saw that you would not be able to leave Charing Cross without paying.

Southeastern trains will likely write to you asking for your account - I suggest sticking to factual and apologetic, and offer to settle out of court. They may accept due to the fact that this can be slightly more easy for them administratively. Equally, given the clarity of the case, they may be keen to move to what looks like an easy prosecution.

If they do try and prosecute you they may do so under either the Railway Byelaws or they may go for the more serious Regulation of Railways Act 1889 (RORA) (See details here). The former requires you to have not paid a fare; the latter requires evidence of deliberate intent to avoid the fare. The fact that you passed multiple opportunities to pay, and attempted to disappear when you saw RPIs, may provide sufficient evidence of this. A successful prosecution would bring a fine and, if under the RoRA, a criminal record.

Fines are set with your finances in mind and are dependent upon the magistrate, but have a look round this site at similar cases - I think you could expect a fine well into the hundreds for this, if prosecuted. An out of court settlement would likely be for a similar amount.

The (sightly) good news is that TOCs tend to take a few months to get prosecutions organised. In other words, you have a few months to try and save up towards any payment.

 

[tony6499]

Seeing a block and turn around to walk away is exactly why there are plain clothes RPI's and BTP there who check for such a thing, all you can do is wait for the letter and see what happens but it might well result in a trip to court for you.

 

[455driver]

When you paid the £20 did they take your name and address (or swipe the Oystercard)? If not then this will be classed as your first offence and so it is likely an out of court offer will be made, if they took your details then this will be your second offence and a day in Court is a possibility although not inevitable!

Either way start saving up now, your personal circumstances are of no concern to SE who are a business which sell train travel, you decided to travel without paying so they want their slice. If it goes to Court then the Court will take your circumstances into account but you will be looking at a bigger fine* in the first place.

As for all the redundancy, new baby, Christmas stuff etc unfortunately thats not SEs problem, this might sound rather harsh but it is true, if you cant afford to travel on the trains then dont, if you are going to travel then pay for it.

* the out of court settlement, if offered, is not a fine and you havent been found guilty of anything.

 

[island]

I do have to agree with the point about "genuine mistake". When you chose to join a train without a valid ticket, you committed a criminal offence under the Railway Byelaws. Had you chosen to use the excess fares office at Charing Cross, you might have gotten away with another Penalty Fare or even been sold a ticket, but your actions in turning back from an inspector show a clear attempt to avoid payment.

It's difficult to say how much this will cost you. A lot depends on whether you can keep it out of court. If, as you say, you were dealt with by BTP, this cuts down your chances of doing so by quite an amount. But if you were seen by a Southeastern staff member, then you may potentially be able to keep it out of court. Sums we frequently read of being paid in these circumstances are around £100, but higher (and occasionally lower) amounts are also accepted.

One thing you absolutely must do from here on in is be completely honest about the circumstances and your actions.

 

[najaB]

...your actions in turning back from an inspector show a clear attempt to avoid payment.

To the OP: before you say that you had no intention to avoid payment, it's important to understand that as far as the law is concerned intent is determined by what you do, not by what was in your head. To an outsider looking at your actions the case is simple: you saw the revenue block and tried to get away from it. It doesn't matter what you were thinking.

 

[RJ]

What out of court settlement are we talking about here? It appears it was the BTP that have taken on the case, not Southeastern. The BTP may well liaise with Southeastern to establish any history of fare disputes, but I don't think it's likely they'll pass the case over to Southeastern for them to deal with. I've been in this situation of being reported over a fare dispute by the BTP before and understood there are two outcomes - a "no further action" letter to your house, or a Notice of Intention to Prosecute followed by a court appearance.

Having read a few threads over on the Consumer Action Group forum, the fine and other costs from a successful conviction often add up to around £350 - £400.