Southeastern to scrap trolley service

[MalHT]

Thats just being pedantic though and you really did know what I was getting at.

Well, I don't want an argument. I find unnecessary announcements that get in the way of common sense as annoying as anyone else, but I can't imagine being dissuaded from using facilities on a moving train due to having to leave 'belongings unattended'. Then again, my valuables generally fit in a pocket so I don't worry about theft too much, so I can't speak for all.

 

[jon0844]

I have raised this many a time with SET and the guards on the services but nothing was doing. In effect it is that attitude from some of the staff which has led to the downfall of the trolley service.

Thing is, if SET wasn't really keen on keeping them then turning a blind eye to staff doing this (and I've seen it too) only helps justify their decision. And if you pointed out that they didn't do anything to make sure there was a good service, it's your word against theirs - like your experience having been a one off.

I remember Orange killing off a very good voice activated voicemail service in the early 2000s that the company clearly didn't want to keep going. So it stopped advertising it to new customers for one, then stopped updating it so it caused problems, and when people stopped using it because it didn't work, naturally Orange announced it was binning it because of a fall in usage and a lack of demand.

The same happens on buses. First start by cutting morning and evening services (so commuters can't use them) and then usage will fall sufficiently that the whole route becomes unviable.

 

[Clip]

Well, I don't want an argument. I find unnecessary announcements that get in the way of common sense as annoying as anyone else, but I can't imagine being dissuaded from using facilities on a moving train due to having to leave 'belongings unattended'

Be that as it may there are still announcements reminding you to keep your belongings with you both on and off trains.

Thing is, if SET wasn't really keen on keeping them then turning a blind eye to staff doing this (and I've seen it too) only helps justify their decision. And if you pointed out that they didn't do anything to make sure there was a good service, it's your word against theirs - like your experience having been a one off.

I used to commute between the two places every day including weekends for a couple of years and it was never a one off. It does show how much they actually value a trolley service when they dont even put one on HS1.

 

[jon0844]

It does seem odd not to have ever had a trolley service on HS1. On a recent trip to Margate, I am certain it would have got our business on the way there and back. Once you have routes that cover a long distance, and people are just as likely to travel from one end to another (just as many people may travel on Thameslink from north of St Pancras down to Brighton and vice versa) then they seem like a very good idea.

So why not have trolleys on selected services at least? Perhaps the rush hour trains are the ones NOT to have them, as commuters are usually able to find a moment to buy a coffee from the nearest Chuggs or similar, and it might be hard to get through - but I am sure we can all think of services where they'd do a decent trade simply because the longer distance means you might want something even if you originally boarded with some food/drink.

 

[SETCommuter]

As a regular SE commuter, I never buy anything from the trolleys purely because I really begrudge the prices they charge. But that's a personal thing for me - I don't like being ripped off. As a commuter, you often feel as though you are paying through the nose for everything and the trolley is an extension of this. Perhaps a discount could be offered to season ticket holders, or even offer the Bite card discount on the trolley service to bring the prices down to a more reasonable level.

I also agree with a previous poster that the rise of meal deals, food establishments and numerous platform facilities do kind of remove the need for the trolleys.

As for the trolley staff, I've never found them rude. More often than not, I feel sorry for them as they walk through the train saying "Teas, coffees, snacks" repeatedly and being ignored by pretty much everyone. That said, I don't feel sorry enough to buy something from them at a rip-off price !!

 

[yorksrob]

So no more will I be able to get a bottle of Spitfire on the train to Charing Cross. The decline started with the scrapping of compartments IMO. Country going down the pan.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I welcome this decision and hope the other TOCs follow suit. It's a particular bugbear of mine that whenever you want to move about the train to stretch your legs, go to the toilet or actually get off at your stop you can guarantee TPWWT ("the prat with the trolley") will appear to block your way. A friend of mine even had his case stolen from the luggage rack on a Cross Country train once because TPWWT was blocking his way and the thief saw this and took his opportunity.

It's not like stations don't have facilities to buy food and drink and there are plenty of corner shops and "express" supermarkets around. Taking TPWWT off trains altogether will allow us all to move more freely and make the travelling experience that little bit more pleasureable.

 

[dk1]

It does show how much they actually value a trolley service when they dont even put one on HS1.

Was told that it was as much to do with internal damage to armrests & interior walls as no need on such a fast service.

 

[E16 Cyclist]

I welcome this decision and hope the other TOCs follow suit. It's a particular bugbear of mine that whenever you want to move about the train to stretch your legs, go to the toilet or actually get off at your stop you can guarantee TPWWT ("the prat with the trolley") will appear to block your way. A friend of mine even had his case stolen from the luggage rack on a Cross Country train once because TPWWT was blocking his way and the thief saw this and took his opportunity.

It's not like stations don't have facilities to buy food and drink and there are plenty of corner shops and "express" supermarkets around. Taking TPWWT off trains altogether will allow us all to move more freely and make the travelling experience that little bit more pleasureable.

Hmm so it was the trolley persons fault the case was stolen....interesting

I think calling them a prat is a little harsh as they are only doing their job

 

[GatwickDepress]

It's a real pity as I use trolley services quite a bit. I board at an unstaffed station and regularly use the trolley Southern put on between Lewes and Victoria... here's hoping they don't get rid of that one too...

 

[Tetchytyke]

Hmm so it was the trolley persons fault the case was stolen....interesting

I know, it's not like CrossCountry- who replaced a perfectly good buffet counter with the world's least secure luggage rack- could possibly be at fault.

If it's any consolation, most XC retail managers would rather have their shop back too...

 

[ChiefPlanner]

It is a shame - but consider the plethora of station retail units available these days..... - I always make a point on my very rare trips on the HoW to buy something off the trolley - ditto on the usual very good Arriva "express" services. (The latter , I believe is part of the franchise obligations - and a very good way of "recruiting" staff for the railway in the form of potential conductors etc - as well as providing decent jobs in "rural" areas...like Machynlleth)

 

[dk1]

I know, it's not like CrossCountry- who replaced a perfectly good buffet counter with the world's least secure luggage rack- could possibly be at fault.

If it's any consolation, most XC retail managers would rather have their shop back too...

I always prefer a buffet/shop but must say i have been very impressed with the XC at-seat service of late. Hot food to order & the service passing by 7 times between Sheffield & Edinburgh was most impressive.

 

[scotsman]

As a regular SE commuter, I never buy anything from the trolleys purely because I really begrudge the prices they charge. But that's a personal thing for me - I don't like being ripped off. As a commuter, you often feel as though you are paying through the nose for everything and the trolley is an extension of this. Perhaps a discount could be offered to season ticket holders, or even offer the Bite card discount on the trolley service to bring the prices down to a more reasonable level.

I also agree with a previous poster that the rise of meal deals, food establishments and numerous platform facilities do kind of remove the need for the trolleys.

As for the trolley staff, I've never found them rude. More often than not, I feel sorry for them as they walk through the train saying "Teas, coffees, snacks" repeatedly and being ignored by pretty much everyone. That said, I don't feel sorry enough to buy something from them at a rip-off price !!

The thing about prices: it's only to cover costs - trolleys don't make huge amounts of money.

As for the Bitecard idea - anyone can get one, so it's essentially just a 20% cut straight off the top. It's worth noting that Bitecard is a RailGourmet product (through their SSP subsidiary), so it would only be on selected TOCs.

Not a bad idea re: season ticket holders, though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I welcome this decision and hope the other TOCs follow suit. It's a particular bugbear of mine that whenever you want to move about the train to stretch your legs, go to the toilet or actually get off at your stop you can guarantee TPWWT ("the prat with the trolley") will appear to block your way. A friend of mine even had his case stolen from the luggage rack on a Cross Country train once because TPWWT was blocking his way and the thief saw this and took his opportunity.

It's not like stations don't have facilities to buy food and drink and there are plenty of corner shops and "express" supermarkets around. Taking TPWWT off trains altogether will allow us all to move more freely and make the travelling experience that little bit more pleasureable.

The irony is that the extra member of staff onboard probably deterred many more thefts.

Yours,

The Prat With The Trolley.

 

[Cletus]

From Southeastern, slightly later date of mid-November.
http://www.southeasternrailway.co.u...s/withdrawal-of-on-board-refreshment-service/

From mid-November the refreshment trolley service provided on board our mainline trains will no longer be available.

Our contract with Rail Gourmet, who provide this service, will expire at the end of October and we will not be renewing the arrangement. Passenger demand for the service has dropped over the last couple of years and we have been subsidising the activity during that period. Unfortunately this is no longer financially sustainable.

We are working with Rail Gourmet to support staff and provide opportunities to seek redeployment. Under our new franchise, passengers can look forward to seeing more station cafes and on-platform vending machines around our network so that you can continue to buy refreshments on the go.

 

[user15681]

From Southeastern, slightly later date of mid-November.
http://www.southeasternrailway.co.u...s/withdrawal-of-on-board-refreshment-service/

15th I've heard.

 

[Jonfun]

I welcome this decision and hope the other TOCs follow suit. It's a particular bugbear of mine that whenever you want to move about the train to stretch your legs, go to the toilet or actually get off at your stop you can guarantee TPWWT ("the prat with the trolley") will appear to block your way. A friend of mine even had his case stolen from the luggage rack on a Cross Country train once because TPWWT was blocking his way and the thief saw this and took his opportunity.

It's not like stations don't have facilities to buy food and drink and there are plenty of corner shops and "express" supermarkets around. Taking TPWWT off trains altogether will allow us all to move more freely and make the travelling experience that little bit more pleasureable.

Your post bugs me for a number of reasons.

1) Your abbreviation should be TPWTT.

2) Theft is generally the fault of the thief, unless you're suggesting the Retail Manager was on the rob.

3) The vast majority of real people prefer the option to buy snacks and drinks on board - see any TOC's twitter feed if catering is unavailable for whatever reason.

4) As has been pointed out, the presence of more staff onboard is generally a good thing.

TPWTT could also stand for The Prat With The Ticket, if we're going to start name calling...

 

[Howardh]

I find trolly and buffet prices to be way too high - if I know I'm going on a long journey I take my own, and if that means a flask in mid-winter then so be it.

If people really want a coffee on a train of 1 - 2 hrs, then why not install drinks/sweets vending machines? OK - might be the end of the trolly dolly but jobs would be required in servicing the things. Not exactly sure where you would put them, but they do take about the same space as a trolly+dolly? Think they would be popular as (a) saves wating for the trolly to come round and (b) I bet many passengers are unaware that there IS a trolly on their train, especially if they miss announcements as their ears are glued to their mobile player (!) so stickers on the windows might inform.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I always prefer a buffet/shop but must say i have been very impressed with the XC at-seat service of late. Hot food to order & the service passing by 7 times between Sheffield & Edinburgh was most impressive.

On quiet or mid-loaded trains the trolley service on XC is good. It's in-house rather than Rail Gourmet, which always helps. I like the fact you can now pre-order your food online before you set off, although I've not used the service so don't know if it works or not.

I don't think trolleys are that expensive either, not when you consider the cost of providing the service in the first place. £2.20 for a piping hot cup of coffee really isn't that bad. The only thing I wish they wouldn't do is use those awful cartons of "looks like real snot (made with non-milk fats)". Even UHT milk would be better than that stuff

 

[GodAtum]

My 2c, I have never bought any food or drinks aboard a train.

 

[Clip]

My 2c, I have never bought any food or drinks aboard a train.

So its all your fault that the trolley and buffet services are continually being cut back

 

[Urban Gateline]

My 2c, I have never bought any food or drinks aboard a train.

So the saying is true, the richest people can often be the tightest when it comes to spending money!

 

[GodAtum]

Lol maybe because I only make short journeys of <1 hour and I wait until I get to mwork to make a tea. I have eaten on a train, very lucky to have a FGW Pullman dinner many years ago and also breakfast and lunch on a Virgin train (in 1st).

 

[Chrisgr31]

I fail to understand why it is so expensive to operate a trolley on a train. What are the costs? The staff member, the trolley, and any product waste?

After all if we can go into a supermarket and buy a meal deal for £3 whats stopping the trolley operator buying 5 or 10 meal deals for £3 each then selling the onboard for £5?

Its all very well buying stuff on the station but then you find yourself carrying a briefcase, roller bag or whatever, your food, and then having to find your ticket for inspection and I often dont have time to buy food at stations, and anyway thats over priced as well.

I can't help but think that actually there is a market for enterprising individuals to operate trolley services and make a profit which could be shared with the TOC rather than the TOC having to pay them to be present. It won't work on all lines nor all trains on a line but would on some.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I can't help but think that actually there is a market for enterprising individuals to operate trolley services and make a profit which could be shared with the TOC rather than the TOC having to pay them to be present. It won't work on all lines nor all trains on a line but would on some.

I believe the redundant staff did such on the London-Hastings services when SE scrapped them on that route a couple of years ago. According to a recent post on here, Southeastern never acknowledged them on timetables or info displays, and scarcely ever in on-board announcements. I don't believe the operation lasted. Contrast that to Northern who between Settle and Carlisle have the independent Friends of the S&C group provide catering which is very well advertised.

 

[AlterEgo]

I fail to understand why it is so expensive to operate a trolley on a train. What are the costs? The staff member, the trolley, and any product waste?

Nobody says it's expensive, just that the costs of doing so aren't recouped by sales.