Southeastern to increase off-peak fares

[LLivery]

From BBC News: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-39928386

Rail passengers on off-peak Southeastern services are facing higher fares from 21 May.
The rail operator is implementing increases of 3.4% or 10p, whichever is the greatest.
Southeastern has not informed passengers of the increase but said it did not "routinely announce fare rises".
Campaigners described the move as "an appallingly high-handed way to treat passengers".
About 640,000 journeys are made on 1,900 Southeastern trains every weekday.
Lianna Etkind, of the Campaign for Better Transport, said: "It's bad enough that Southeastern passengers have had to put up with years of government-imposed peak fare rises while wages stagnate, but more back-door fare increases are unacceptable.
"We're urging passengers to respond to the current Southeastern franchise consultation and tell the government that enough is enough, and passengers deserve proper value for money on their journeys."

I, like many are absolutely tired of Govia, but saying they do not "routinely announce fare rises" seems like they're almost trying to p*ss people off. Why have they decided not to mention it anywhere and how often has mid year fare rises been implemented?

 

[swt_passenger]

how often has mid year fare rises been implemented?

Every year, I expect. There have been three opportunities per year for yonks...

 

[LLivery]

Every year, I expect. There have been three opportunities per year for yonks...

Ah I had no idea, thanks for that.

 

[SF-02]

And still no confirmation of those 25 extra trains at the end of the year. Cancelled?

It comes after 319 transfer was not approved as little stabling space, so many sit in sidings. Constant short term extensions with little investment will do that. In 2012, then 2014 and again last year. And a TfL deal also scrapped. Kent and SE London must have ****ed someone off at the DfT to get poor treatment for so long. Grayling does nothing.

 

[swt_passenger]

Ah I had no idea, thanks for that.

Yes - for some reason the national media seem to concentrate their firepower on the January rise, as though it is the only change. I expect that one has the most reliance on the RPI - and they usually have about three versions of that story, based on the misconception that every season ticket holder buys his ticket on Jan 1st...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Ah I had no idea, thanks for that.

Mostly, fares rise only once a year.
The January rise is for regulated fares - season tickets and one off-peak fare (which is why the government is always blamed as they set the rate linked to inflation).
The other two rises are usually for unregulated fares (eg anytime, saver and secondary off-peak fares).
But the TOCs can raise (or lower, quite a few are adjustments to remove anomalies) these fares more than once a year, as they are not regulated or linked to inflation.
It's also an opportunity to introduce new types of fare (eg APOD).
But the media only has one story - fares increases bad/rip-off etc.

 

[Cletus]

Can’t remember the last time Southeastern had a mid-year increase. To my cynical mind it looks like it has been snuck in during the election campaign in the hope that no-one would notice.

 

[ScotGG]

Also the franchise is supposed to be up in Dec 2018 (after numerous short-term extensions) so maybe they think sod it.

Of course they could've raised more revenue by actually having barriers operational at stations instead of wide open most of the day or non-existent. But those mentioned short term extensions often meant no point in doing so.

 

[LLivery]

Mostly, fares rise only once a year.
The January rise is for regulated fares - season tickets and one off-peak fare (which is why the government is always blamed as they set the rate linked to inflation).
The other two rises are usually for unregulated fares (eg anytime, saver and secondary off-peak fares).
But the TOCs can raise (or lower, quite a few are adjustments to remove anomalies) these fares more than once a year, as they are not regulated or linked to inflation.
It's also an opportunity to introduce new types of fare (eg APOD).
But the media only has one story - fares increases bad/rip-off etc.

Ah I see. I was under the impression I think like many that fares only rise in January but of course differently between regulated and unregulated.

 

[LLivery]

Yes - for some reason the national media seem to concentrate their firepower on the January rise, as though it is the only change. I expect that one has the most reliance on the RPI - and they usually have about three versions of that story, based on the misconception that every season ticket holder buys his ticket on Jan 1st...

Makes sense. I was wondering why it didn't seem to be a big story even down here in South London.

 

[yorkie]

Makes sense. I was wondering why it didn't seem to be a big story even down here in South London.

maybe because most journeys originating in south London are wholly within the London zonal area, so won't see any rises.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

From BBC News: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-39928386



I, like many are absolutely tired of Govia, but saying they do not "routinely announce fare rises" seems like they're almost trying to p*ss people off. Why have they decided not to mention it anywhere and how often has mid year fare rises been implemented?

Anyone know which fares are going up? The SouthEastern announcement is quite vague on the matter:

A Southeastern spokesman said: “We understand no one likes to see fares increase but sometimes it is necessary to adjust our prices. On this occasion it means that from Sunday 21 May some of our unregulated fares will rise by 3.4 per cent or 10p whichever is greater.

'some of our unregulated fares' leaves a lot of scope for interpretation!

 

[Starmill]

It's probably the cost-effective Super Off-Peak tickets which offer decent pence per mile already. Of course increasing these is bad for the reputation of rail because they're the fares the most cash-strapped people will buy and use - and the ones which attract people out of their cars.

Despite that, 3.4% or 10p is not bad. Some Off-Peak tickets in greater Manchester have gone up by as much as 40% in the space of 7 months - and that's on fares with higher pence per mile already than Southeastern's cheapest tickets.

Southeastern routes continue to offer decent value as long as you travel at the times they want you to (which admittedly not everyone can do). E.g. Dover Priory to London Charing Cross is 75 miles, the journey is slow but not too slow, and you can get a return for £23 on the day. This fare is increasing to £23.70. It's still good value in a way that most local fares in Greater Manchester simply won't be after the May fares change.

My ongoing overriding view is that all rail fares should be frozen pending review, and the aims of the review should be to work out where and how fares can go down. Sadly I'm realistic about how this lines up with current government policy. But the current government doesn't have to stay, and that's all in your hands...

 

[BluePenguin]

It's probably the cost-effective Super Off-Peak tickets which offer decent pence per mile already. Of course increasing these is bad for the reputation of rail because they're the fares the most cash-strapped people will buy and use - and the ones which attract people out of their cars.

Despite that, 3.4% or 10p is not bad. Some Off-Peak tickets in greater Manchester have gone up by as much as 40% in the space of 7 months - and that's on fares with higher pence per mile already than Southeastern's cheapest tickets.

Southeastern routes continue to offer decent value as long as you travel at the times they want you to (which admittedly not everyone can do). E.g. Dover Priory to London Charing Cross is 75 miles, the journey is slow but not too slow, and you can get a return for £23 on the day. This fare is increasing to £23.70. It's still good value in a way that most local fares in Greater Manchester simply won't be after the May fares change.

My ongoing overriding view is that all rail fares should be frozen pending review, and the aims of the review should be to work out where and how fares can go down. Sadly I'm realistic about how this lines up with current government policy. But the current government doesn't have to stay, and that's all in your hands...

With a rail card, the £15 fare from Dover Priory to Charing Cross is amazing value and is exactly what gets people out of cars and onto the tracks. Trains up north have always been expensive in my experience. I don't know whether this is because they are used any less or the TOCs are just greedy and choose to charge more.

 

[yorksrob]

It's probably the cost-effective Super Off-Peak tickets which offer decent pence per mile already. Of course increasing these is bad for the reputation of rail because they're the fares the most cash-strapped people will buy and use - and the ones which attract people out of their cars.

Despite that, 3.4% or 10p is not bad. Some Off-Peak tickets in greater Manchester have gone up by as much as 40% in the space of 7 months - and that's on fares with higher pence per mile already than Southeastern's cheapest tickets.

Southeastern routes continue to offer decent value as long as you travel at the times they want you to (which admittedly not everyone can do). E.g. Dover Priory to London Charing Cross is 75 miles, the journey is slow but not too slow, and you can get a return for £23 on the day. This fare is increasing to £23.70. It's still good value in a way that most local fares in Greater Manchester simply won't be after the May fares change.

My ongoing overriding view is that all rail fares should be frozen pending review, and the aims of the review should be to work out where and how fares can go down. Sadly I'm realistic about how this lines up with current government policy. But the current government doesn't have to stay, and that's all in your hands...

That's a very good point about Manchester. I've had experience of the 40% increases and I think it's disgusting quite frankly.

That said, one of the issues with South Eastern is that above average increases have already been increased over the average (presumably to pay for the high speed line whose fares are already grossly inflated).

At least South Eastern is one of the few places in the country where I actually have the option of a railcard.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I appreciate that things have moved on in terms of expectations, openness and transparency but mid-year 'stealth' fare rises are nothing new.

Back in BR days, certainly in the Provincial/Regional Railways sector (outside areas where Passenger Transport Executives controlled the fares), it was common to increase various fares either in January, spring or autumn; not necessarily waiting 12 months since a previous increase. This was especially the case where overcrowding was occurring and/or improved services/new rolling stock were being introduced.

I remember looking at some market research that demonstrated a remarkably low level of awareness of fares and fare increases. Most rail users on leisure journeys seemed to demonstrate a lack of knowledge of what they had paid last time, when fares had last increased, what the competing bus fare was, etc.