Southeastern... suspicious letter...

[Greenback]

What would be wrong with replying with your name and address (which they already know), and a response to the statement provided, namely that you were not approached nor engaged in any way with any revenue officers on the 25th January.

I agree with this, and this is probably the course of action that I would take.

Since no mention is made of any ticket irregularities I see no need to provide copies of your tickets / oyster journey history at this stage. If it's real then you will have provided the information required, and if it's fake then you've not given anything away (other than your address and name being genuine which is probably safe to say thay a fraudster would know, since they would know your travel habits).

I would be more concerned about someone using my details, but I certainly would not supply any more information than that which they already possess.

I do not think the letter is a scam, I believe it is more likely to be someone giving your details or even an admin error where your details may have got mixed up with another person.

 

[Szazomy]

As it happens, I decided to do exactly this and I have just written a letter to them, following guidance from their customer services too. I decided to leave out any mention of train fare payments and the like, and referred only to what was mentioned in the letter. I wrote...

To the prosecutions office,
I am writing in regards to a letter I recently received concerning an alleged incident on Southeastern Railway on 25th January 2013. The letter is dated 31st January 2013, though I was away from home from that date and only received the letter upon coming home late on 7th February 2013. As such, I was not able to respond within the seven days that it requested of me. I contacted Southeastern customer services about the letter, and they recommended I write this letter to you.

I was not questioned about, involved in or witness to any incident on the given date (25.1.13) though I would have used a Southeastern service that day. I would have been travelling home from London Victoria to Bromley South - it is the final leg of a regular journey I make from Colchester Station to Bromley South via Liverpool Street and Victoria. It is a journey I make at least twice a month, and is in fact the journey I made on the day I came home to the letter.

I immediately attempted to e-mail Southeastern in regards to the letter, but following no response within 24 hours I alerted the British Transport Police to the situation - although they referred me to your customer services line that told me to write this letter, they were struck by the number of mistakes and errors in the letter I received, and recommended that I mention them. These included the mispelling of my name, vague descriptions of the alleged incident and more. It is entirely possible these are down to simple human error, but I felt it best to seek assurance given the letter was asking me to respond with extended personal details (full name, date of birth, N.I. number, address, phone number, occupation etc.), when given my lack of even being questioned about an incident, my personal details may have already been compromised. All the same I have kept and filled out the letter for if it requires a late submission, and hope this situation may be rectified soon.

Yours sincerely
***********

I hope that covers everything I need to mention, at this stage at least

 

[njr001]

Just a thought, if you topped up your Oyster card, I assume it is PAYG card, have you logged on to your account and printed out your journey history.

 

[Szazomy]

Just a thought, if you topped up your Oyster card, I assume it is PAYG card, have you logged on to your account and printed out your journey history.

It is indeed PAYG but I didn't have an account on the card as I bought it from a local newsagents. I got an account yesterday to see if I could get a history printed off, but they can only be done from the date at which the account was made.

 

[maniacmartin]

A London Underground ticket office and some Overground offices can print a history, if you're passing by one

 

[transportphoto]

A London Underground ticket office and some Overground offices can print a history, if you're passing by one

I recall getting a very detailed print from Chiltern at Marylebone [[stn]MYB[/stn]] a while back

TP

 

[MikeWh]

It is indeed PAYG but I didn't have an account on the card as I bought it from a local newsagents. I got an account yesterday to see if I could get a history printed off, but they can only be done from the date at which the account was made.

You should be able to ask for a statement to be emailed to you. The instructions are on this page on my site.

A London Underground ticket office and some Overground offices can print a history, if you're passing by one

That will only be the last 8 journeys which is all that is stored on the card itself. Each leg of a multi leg journey takes up it's own slot too, so the information can rapidly fall off the end.

I recall getting a very detailed print from Chiltern at Marylebone [[stn]MYB[/stn]] a while back

TP

That would be the full statement which includes details of topups, discounts, tickets and other personal stuff too. It's still only the last 8 journeys though.

 

[Szazomy]

Thanks very much... I have just requested a card history via email, so hopefully should get that within a matter of days. I've nothing to hide or feel guilty about, so this should hopefully clear everything up. I have also found my train tickets for the rest of my journey for that day (completed on the Underground and with Greater Anglia)... these might be ultimately useless, but they have proof of the time I travelled that day if nothing else.

I may very well request a history from a tube station too... I only use my Oyster card as a part-payment for my longer journeys, and I do London-only travel on a Railcard-discounted travelcard. I believe that the journey in question will have been within my most recent 8 that I paid for Thanks for this guys

 

[8J]

This sounds suspicious!

I would send off nothing and report it. It may be a similar type of incident to the fake RPI on merseyrail I saw last year... Best of luck to you resolving it
JTD

 

[transportphoto]

This sounds suspicious!

I would send off nothing and report it. It may be a similar type of incident to the fake RPI on merseyrail I saw last year... Best of luck to you resolving it
JTD

I don't agree with this, action needs to be taken, just not to the address on the letter.

TP

 

[W230]

I don't agree with this, action needs to be taken, just not to the address on the letter.

Yep, definitely. Then SE are aware of the issue/situation and if it is a phishing scam then they at least know about it.

 

[SussexMan]

Yep, definitely. Then SE are aware of the issue/situation and if it is a phishing scam then they at least know about it.

How can it be a phishing scam if the addressee has to reply to the offices of Southeastern?

I don't agree with this, action needs to be taken, just not to the address on the letter.

Where would you reply to? Personally I would have thought it better to reply to Southeastern as it is their address!

This sounds suspicious!

I would send off nothing and report it. It may be a similar type of incident to the fake RPI on merseyrail I saw last year... Best of luck to you resolving it
JTD

Report it? Report it to who? The letter has Southeastern's details and asks the addressee to reply to them at their address. So just reply to the letter (as has been done). I can't see any need to involve BTP at this stage.

The OP has had a letter from Southeastern which asks them to reply to Southeastern. Yes the layout might be poor and it might not look totally professional but so do many letters!

What possible "scam" could this be? I am bemused.

Assuming the OP is telling the truth then the most likely option is that someone must have been stopped by Revenue Protection and given the OPs details. Now how that person got them I don't know but I would be much more concerned about that side of things than that the letter might be a scam! As I have said, "What scam could it possibly be?". Another option is that a "friend" of the OP has made up the letter as a "joke" but then as soon as Southeastern get the reply then they will realise that the "incident" isn't on their records. That though isn't a scam as the person writing the letter can't gain from it.

I realise the OP has replied and I think that's all that was needed at this stage and the reply seems fine to me.

One final question to the OP, did the letter have some incident reference number on it? I assume all letters sent by Southeastern would have some reference on them and asking you to quote that on your reply. If it didn't seems strange, if it did then would be easy to track with Southeastern.

But I still can't see where there is any scam.

 

[Szazomy]

One final question to the OP, did the letter have some incident reference number on it? I assume all letters sent by Southeastern would have some reference on them and asking you to quote that on your reply. If it didn't seems strange, if it did then would be easy to track with Southeastern.

There was indeed a reference number on the letter given, situated just above the 'Dear Mr ******' part... In my reply I didn't refer to this reference number, though I provided them with my name and address - the details they somehow are already in possession of. But yes, I've written and sent the cover letter which they should receive today, I've kept possession of the letter they sent me for now, I've found my travel tickets for the other segments of my journey on that date, and have requested an Oyster Card history e-mail from Transport for London. I hope that is everything covered for now, and think I've done all I can in the mean time.

 

[richw]

HMRC state you should only share your national insurance number with individuals, groups and companies who require it for tax purposes. HMRC state you should not share you national insurance number for any other purposes.
Therefore by requesting national insurance numbers the TOCs are going against HMRC instructions to NI holders.

 

[tony_mac]

the most likely option is that someone must have been stopped by Revenue Protection and given the OPs details. Now how that person got them I don't know but I would be much more concerned about that side of things than that the letter might be a scam!

I think that is the most likely explanation.
That needs to be dealt with first, before they try and take it further.

The complaints about the content and style of the letter, while valid, can be dealt with later, when there is no risk of them trying to take further action.

 

[fusionblue]

Personally i would not respond to that letter, but contact Southeastern directly.

3 points that stick out at me.

1 - SE's legal name is London & Southeastern Railway Ltd, not Southeastern Ltd.
2 - SE's postal address (as listed on their website) is a PO box, not on Tooley Street adjacent to London Bridge station.
3 - Looking up 84 Tooley Street on Google Street View (http://goo.gl/maps/1GaxR) you can see on the right that the address corresponds to a "Southeastern Railway Offices".

 

[island]

I like BravoGolfMike's letter most.

 

[Szazomy]

Still awaiting a response to the letter I sent Southeastern, and am also awaiting my Oyster Card history just to cover myself.

 

[Chouette]

3 - Looking up 84 Tooley Street on Google Street View (http://goo.gl/maps/1GaxR) you can see on the right that the address corresponds to a "Southeastern Railway Offices".

Which are apparently occupied by "the Churchill at War exhibition, a restaurant, and a paintball firm"

http://londonist.com/2011/09/south-eastern-railways-office-under-threat.php

 

[SussexMan]

A company's registered address doesn't mean that they undertake all their business from that address (although their headed paper should give their registered company number and the address where the company is registered).

Southeastern are not are not located anywhere near their operating area:

London & South Eastern Railway Limited is a company registered in England (No.04860660).
Registered office: 3rd Floor, 41-51 Grey Street, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 6EE.

This is the website which suggested to me that Southeastern have an office base at 84 Tooley Street

RTM Jobs Website

However, checking Southeastern's website in relation to recruitment suggests they have now moved their recruitment office to Tonbridge.

That's not to suggest of course that their Prosecutions Unit (or whatever it is called) isn't still based at 84 Tooley Street.

Isn't there a Forum Member who works for Southeastern who can confirm that 84 Tooley Street is an address used by Southeastern?

 

[richw]

A bit of Googling brought up this which may be of interest, as a description of a photograph!

Former offices of the South Eastern Railway company at 84 Tooley Street, London, SE1 2TF

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/upload...n_Bridge/Documents/Consultation Statement.pdf

This article suggests Network rail are in consultation to demolish 84 Tooley street as part of London Bridge station improvements.

 

[theageofthetra]

I have been reading this thread with interest & I have to say the posters story stinks of a bog standard Nigerian type of fraud. I experienced something very similar working in banking & it regretably will involve a corrupt individual within the TOC/revenue or possibly TFL. I can't go into too much detail on a public forum of how this fraud works but it is very simple and reaps big rewards. I would stongly advise the poster to 1) Do not respond to the address on the letter. 2) Send all of your letters concerning this matter to South Eastern's Tonbridge office. 3) If you have any kind of Oyster top up attached to your bank account or paid for the National Rail ticket by Debit card then alert your bank of a risk of possible fraud and give your bank details of when the ticket was paid for. Sorry to hear of what has happened and hope it will get resolved.

 

[Szazomy]

I have been reading this thread with interest & I have to say the posters story stinks of a bog standard Nigerian type of fraud. I experienced something very similar working in banking & it regretably will involve a corrupt individual within the TOC/revenue or possibly TFL. I can't go into too much detail on a public forum of how this fraud works but it is very simple and reaps big rewards. I would stongly advise the poster to 1) Do not respond to the address on the letter. 2) Send all of your letters concerning this matter to South Eastern's Tonbridge office. 3) If you have any kind of Oyster top up attached to your bank account or paid for the National Rail ticket by Debit card then alert your bank of a risk of possible fraud and give your bank details of when the ticket was paid for. Sorry to hear of what has happened and hope it will get resolved.

I'll be sure to keep you updated
Discouragingly, I haven't received a response from Southeastern regarding the letter I sent them yet... I'm not sure how long that'll take, but it's been pretty much a week now. I've still kept the letter of potential prosecution they sent me though. A slight delay came from TfL regarding my oyster journey history, though that's all good now and should be with me within ten days. Hopefully I won't need it, but in case I do that should cover me. And hopefully I won't need to phone anyone for the next few days either as I've got quite the cold, and my voice has all but gone
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well it's been over a week now and I haven't heard back from Southeastern regarding any of this.

I sent them an email AND the letter in the post last Thursday night (7th) and have had a response to neither. I shall leave this until next Monday, by which time if I haven't had a response on either platform I'll consider what to do next I'm back to using trains on Tuesday, though frankly I wish I wasn't... even if Southeastern aren't responsible for this, or it was a simple error, they've nonetheless left me in the dark about this and have been less that cooperative.

 

[jon0844]

Perhaps the whole company is in on the scam and they fear they'll be found out...



Good luck though, I hope this is resolved soon as if there is some sort of scam going on it probably isn't just you affected.

 

[theageofthetra]

Have you been contacting the Tonbridge office by phone/letter?

 

[Szazomy]

Have you been contacting the Tonbridge office by phone/letter?

I phoned the Tonbridge offices last weekend and they told me to send a cover letter to the Tooley Street address... I did so, but didn't give them any personal details and simply enquired about the legitimacy of the letter they sent me. If I don't hear back come Monday, I think I'm going to phone them again... I'm not sure of the sort of time frame I'm being expected to wait for this, and if my personal details are compromised I want to get it sorted as quickly as possible

 

[SussexMan]

I phoned the Tonbridge offices last weekend and they told me to send a cover letter to the Tooley Street address...

So Southeastern has confirmed to you that 84 Tooley Street is their office address for this type of work. In which case I am struggling to see how it can be any scam - Nigerian or otherwise. It still leaves the question of who gave them your details.

 

[barrykas]

A little late to the party I know, but I'm sure nobody will be even remotely surprised to know that Companies House has no record of a "Southeastern Railway Limited"...

 

[Ferret]

So Southeastern has confirmed to you that 84 Tooley Street is their office address for this type of work. In which case I am struggling to see how it can be any scam - Nigerian or otherwise. It still leaves the question of who gave them your details.

Exactly what I thought all along. I expect somebody has been masquerading as the OP, and it's very possibly somebody known to the OP.

 

[snail]

Having followed but not contributed to the thread so far I have to say I concur with Ferret's opinion. There is enough to suggest this letter is from Southeastern, and that they are asking for more information than is absolutely necessary (or legitimate?). Using a prepaid 2nd class envelope means nothing other than that is what they have bought for this team to use.

More generally, my local Trading Standards office and police force, Lancashire Constabulary, have installed a 'scam mail box' at the local town hall and other locations for people to drop suspicious letters in this month.
http://www3.lancashire.gov.uk/corporate/news/press_releases/y/m/release.asp?id=201301&r=PR13/0045