Southeastern shortforming trains?

[choochootrain]

A relative who lives in South East London has reported to me that Southeastern services today are formed of only 4 carriages and as a result are extremely busy. Why do they insist on doing this, especially as they constantly tell us to socially distance? They have the carriages as these services are formed of 8 or 12 carriages during the week so why not use them?

 

[StephenHunter]

They need to maintain the units - you can't run them constantly as various parts wear out and need replacing.

 

[87015]

They need to maintain the units - you can't run them constantly as various parts wear out and need replacing.

Can you provide the diagrams for them on maintenance rather than stabled to prove that? Various operators are taking the mick on weekends now it seems. 4 vice 12 pre Covid out of London a speciality.

 

[DorkingMain]

Diagrams are set up so that different units cycle into different places.

Can't speak for Southeastern but nearly all our trains are stabled out of use at weekends in locations where it's possible to perform light maintenance at a minimum - trains berthed in a more "live" location (eg a terminal platform) tend to be activated at weekends or act as a hot spare

 

[Andrew S]

All those I've seen on the North Kent line have been 8 or 10 carriages as normal.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Based on what we have seen recently, there is far more down time for maintenance. I cannot imagine there’s booked 4 car work at present, but if you’ve got a situation at the start of the day where a couple have AWS / TPWS / GSMR / door (etc) faults on starting their diagrams they will be, by a sorry coincidence, running some 4s.

 

[Domh245]

Based on what we have seen recently, there is far more down time for maintenance.

There's also a severe limitation on maintenance capacity. Maintenance staff need to socially distance in the depot, which slows things down quite a bit

 

[43066]

SE are short on tall drivers, tall on short trains.

EDIT: back on topic, the 10 car 376 I was riding twenty minutes ago didn't appear to be short formed.

 

[DorkingMain]

SE are short on tall drivers, tall on short trains.

EDIT: back on topic, the 10 car 376 I was riding twenty minutes ago didn't appear to be short formed.

I happen to actually be related to a short fat SE instructor and I take great issue with this

4 cars at weekends are common for Southeastern / Southern / SWR. Of course bear in mind that if you were a passenger on some services in the north, a 4 car turning up would be a blessing.

 

[Bucephalus]

I remember plenty of 4 car fasts to Victoria from Bromley South on the weekend pre-covid. More so on a Sunday though

 

[londonteacher]

There was definitely a 4 car running on the North Kent Line yesterday. The service I was on was busy mid-afternoon. All other services on the lin were 8 or 10 car.

 

[Jim Jehosofat]

Its make your minds up people! Short formed train or no train - given the choice, what would you prefer?

 

[Mrs. Fortescue]

Its make your minds up people! Short formed train or no train - given the choice, what would you prefer?

Sure, but that’s not the point.

This is often said about ATW in the past and TfW currently. Just because it’s better than nothing, doesn’t mean it’s acceptable.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

Sure, but that’s not the point.

This is often said about ATW in the past and TfW currently. Just because it’s better than nothing, doesn’t mean it’s acceptable.

Well said

 

[FlippyFF]

Yesterday morning's 06:57 Ramsgate to Cannon Street (Diverted to Victoria) was 8 vice 11(12?). The 07:19 Ashford Cannon Street (also diverted to VIC) was advertised as 8 instead of 12.
Today the 06:57 is 11 coaches while the 07:19 is advertised as 8 again (on Tiger) instead if 12. The latter isn't listed on https://www.southeasternrailway.co....550310000#INC5DB32F0DF42E4864B1F25704FE723DB6

Simon

 

[DorkingMain]

Sure, but that’s not the point.

This is often said about ATW in the past and TfW currently. Just because it’s better than nothing, doesn’t mean it’s acceptable.

Perhaps, but the answer is never that simple. Train operators could get loads of spares to cover all eventualities but then you're paying for more trains than you need 90% of the time and how do you sell the idea that people should be fine being crammed onto their train while a load are parked up in a yard?

Realistically it's about balance of probability and the chances of all the spare trains being needed / out of action at once. Sometimes that calculation isn't made as well as it should be or operators have to "make do" because there isn't any other stock available, but most of the time it's just because the alternative is far too expensive for little return the majority of the time.

 

[Deepgreen]

I think the short answer is that not all SE trains will have been short-formed, and that they don't "insist on doing this" but are sometimes caught out by circumstances, many of which have been mentioned.