Southeastern - Short Fare Evasion

[Ran1010]

Hi everyone,

Thank you in advance for any help you can provide. I have been issued a witness statement receipt after being caught by a revenue protection officer on a Southeastern service.

Background
This was for due to short ticketing, something which I have to ashamedly admit having done. I started to do a few months ago on journeys to work (during peak times) unknowing of the repercussions (this is not absolutely not an excuse, and I was unaware of the severity of short ticketing - not that it has to be said, but I will absolutely never be doing this at all from now on). I would just like some advice going forward on how best to handle the situation. I have not been previously flagged or caught by any TOC before.

My journey would be from Higham to Abbey Wood at which point I would tap in with oyster/bank card for the remaining part of my commute to work, therefore the remaining portion of my journey has always been legitimate and paid for. Since around mid-January of this year, I am guilty of buying tickets from Higham to Northfleet (these were all on trainline - £10.65 return currently) as opposed to Abbey Wood (£15.10 return).

For some context Northfleet is a station that does not have any barriers, so I would not have to scan out of this station with the trainline barcode so not sure how they will be able to investigate the proper amount of times I did this (please can anyone can help me understand this and how I will be able to prove the journeys that I did and did not short fare).

Prior to this, I would absolutely always either buy proper tickets from the station or pay for the actual entire journey via trainline. Due to a combination of factors including financial hardship but primarily stupidity, I began to not buy the full ticket for my commute.

This week the revenue protection officer caught me in between northfleet and Abbey Wood (I had also bought a real ticket in a rush in a panic when I saw them) however of course I was caught as this ticket would not be valid for the time. I had an interview under caution both on the train and this continued when we got off at the next station. I gave all my correct details and admitted that I had knowningly not bought a ticket for my complete journey. He had also looked on my trainline account on my phone and saw that there were previous journeys to northfleet at which point after some probing questions from him I admitted to having done this roughly 5-10 times. In actuality after looking at my account after the interview this was 9 times. I do have other journeys to northfleet (during weekends etc) on my trainline account but these were all real journies in which I was in actual fact travelling there. Prior to me revealing that I had done this around 5-10 times the revenue officer said it would take around a week for a letter/email to come through the post but I believe around the time I admitted to doing this 5-10 times, this timeline changed to 2-3 weeks (I assume this is a result of extended time required by Southeastern for getting the data request approved from Trainline and to investigate?)

Queries

I have been able to read similar situations from this thread, and ultimately I just want to avoid prosecution and would like the opportunity to settle this out of court. How best can I go about ensuring that I can settle this out of court?

I understand I will be receiving a letter that will be asking me about the situation from my perspective. A few questions on this:

1. As they will look into my trainline account history and see that I have short ticketed in the past. Do you think they will mention this in the letter? If not, should I mention it when responding? If I do hopefully get the out-of-court settlement I am praying for, I am unsure if they will base this settlement on all my journeys to northfleet or between the 5-10 journeys of short fare evasion I admitted to (this was only 9 as mentioned above).

2. Also, I was wondering what the steps are after I send a response (also curious whether this is done by email or I have to mail a physical letter to them.) and let’s say I do get the opportunity to settle out of court what would a time frame be to expect to receive that confirmation that I can do that and when and how I would pay? (in regard to Southeastern)

3. I also plan on employing a Solicitor in the Kent area who have experience in fare evasion cases (I have inquired and been quoted between £500-1000 from various experienced solicitors). I am happy to pay these legal fees to show that I am serious about engaging in Southeastern's process and show I am sincere in not short faring by any means from now on. I am also interested in using a Solicitor, as I have read on a number of posts in the past couple to 6 months letters to the Southeastern presenting their mitigation have sometimes been lost. What are your thoughts on this? I believe using a solicitor with prior experience will help ensure that this does not happen, and I would also improve my chances of getting a favourable outcome (this being an out-of-court settlement) For southeastern what is the value of this settlement based on? I've read 2x single anytime journey price of actual journeys evaded + administration costs for other TOCs elsewhere on the forum. Is this correct for southeastern as well?

Apologies for the long post. I would be really appreciate any advice you could provide, and happy to clarify on any points and give additional details

 

[30907]

1. Possibly, possibly not. Likely to be a generic letter.
We generally advise against mentioning other occasions, but making sure your reply leaves the question open and does not indirectly deny them.
If the inspector has a record of you admitting to previous offences, that might suggest a different approach - wait and see what the letter actually asks.
Incidentally, post on here suggest that a solicitor would advise you differently!
Potentially they could factor in every incident, so best be prepared for that, but they are realistic especially where large sums are involved and are more concerned to stop you cheating in future.

2. Pass. However, a settlement normally has to be paid promptly.

3. We have had instances of letters being lost, but I don't recall any where the matter ended up with a prosecution. Our considered view is that for a straightforward case like yours a solicitor isn't worth considering - again, when the letter arrives you may think otherwise but hold fire for now.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi everyone,

Thank you in advance for any help you can provide. I have been issued a witness statement receipt after being caught by a revenue protection officer on a Southeastern service.

Background
This was for due to short ticketing, something which I have to ashamedly admit to have done. I started to do a few months ago on journeys to work (during peak times) unknowing of the repercussions (this is not absolutely not an excuse and I was unaware of the severity of short ticketing - not that it has to be said but I will absolutely never be doing this at all from now on). I would just like some advice going forward on how best to handle the situation. I have not been previously flagged or caught by any TOC before.

My journey would be from Higham to Abbey Wood at which point I would tap in with oyster/bank card for the remaining part of my commute to work therefore the remaining portion of my journey has always been legitimate and paid for. Since around mid January of this year I am guilty of buying tickets from Higham to Northfleet(these were all on trainline - £10.65 return currently) as opposed to Abbey wood (£15.10 return). For some context Northfleet is a station that does not have any barriers so I would not have to scan out of this station with the trainline qr code so not sure how they will be able to investigate the proper amount of times I did this (please can anyone can help me understand this and how I will be able to prove the journeys that I did and did not short fare). Prior to this I would absolutely always either buy proper tickets from the station or pay for the actual entire journey via trainline. Due to combination of factors including financial hardship but primarily stupidity I began to not buy the full ticket for my commute.

This week the revenue protection officer caught me in between northfleet and abbey wood (I had also bought a real ticket in a rush in a panic when I saw them) however of course I was caught as this ticket would not be valid for the time. I had an interview under caution both on the train and this continued when we got off at the next station. I gave all my correct details and admitted that I had knowningly not bought a ticket for my complete journey. He had also looked on my trainline account on my phone and saw that there were previous journeys to northfleet at which point after some probing questions from him I admitted to having done this roughly 5-10 times. In actuality after looking at my account after the interview this was 9 times. I do have other journeys to northfleet (during weekends etc) on my trainline account but these were all real journies in which I was in actual fact travelling there. Prior to me revealing that I had done this around 5-10 times the revenue officer said it would take around a week for a letter/email to come through the post but I believe around the time I admitted to doing this 5-10 times, this timeline changed to 2-3 weeks (I assume this is a result of extended time required by Southeastern for getting the data request approved from Trainline and to investigate?)

Queries

I have been able to read similar situations from this thread and ultimately I just want to avoid prosecution and would like the opportunity to settle this out of court. How best can I go about ensuring that I can settle this out of court?

I understand I will be receiving a letter that will be asking me about the situation from my perspective. A few questions on this:

1. As they will look into my trainline account history and see that I have short ticketed in the past. Do you think they will mention this in the letter? If not should I mention it when responding? If I do hopefully get the out of court settlement I am praying for I am unsure if they will base this settlement on all my journeys to northfleet or between the 5-10 journeys of short fare evasion I admitted to (this was only 9 as mentioned above).

2. Also I was wondering what the steps are after I send a response (also curious whether this is done by email or I have to mail a physical letter to them.) and let’s say I do get the opportunity to settle out of court what would a time frame be to expect to receive that confirmation that I can do that and when and how I would pay? (in regard to Southeastern)

3. I also plan on employing a Solictor in the kent area who have experience in fare evasion cases (i have enquired and been quoted between £500-1000 from various experienced solictors). I am happy to pay these legal fees to show that I am serious about engaging in Southeastern's process and show I am sincere in not short faring by any means from now on. I am also interested in using a Solictor as I have read on a number of posts in the past couple to 6 months letters to the Southeastern presenting their mitigation have sometimes been lost. What are your thoughts on this? I believe using a solicitor with prior experience will help ensure that this does not happen and I would also improve my chances of getting a favourable outcome (this being an out of court settlement) For southeastern what is the value of this settlement based on? I've read 2x single anytime journey price of actual journies evaded + adminstration costs for other TOCs elsewhere on the forum. Is this correct for southeastern as well?

Apologies for the long post. I would be really appreciateive for any advice you could provide and happy to clarify on any points and give additional details

Welcome. You will get answers here on all this but briefly

- highly likely it will take longer to hear from them than the staff member suggested. Think maybe 6-8 weeks.

- their letter will advise what method you can reply by

- it’s better you don’t reply until you have advice from here to help you get your wording as best it can be.

- but it’s vital you do reply or otherwise it will escalate to prosecution automatically.

- I don’t think you need a solicitor at this stage if you want to try to resolve the matter yourself. But you can weigh up that in coming days based on info from here as to what you need to do and the respective costs to you etc to help you make an informed choice.

- if there is something you can do to legitimately reduce your travel cost eg buy a season or flexibseason then doing this now is a way to show the railway you have learned a lesson and changed your ways.

If you engage with them they will be reasonable in terms of believing you about travel eg where there’s no ticket scan touch out reading at a location but you may need to support that with credible reason or evidence that this was indeed a genuine start or destination point

 

[Ran1010]

Firstly thank you @30907 and @WesternLancer for taking the time to respond. Your insights and advice were both reassuring and incredibly insightful.

UPDATE: Today I received the letter from Southeastern through the post (see attached below).

I have drafted a response below and would greatly appreciate any suggestions/advice before I send this to southeastern. I really want to show how I have learned from this incident and will never again do this as well as ultimately get an out of court settlement.

Dear Southeastern Debt Recovery & Prosecutions Manager,
Ref: (insert case ref)
I am writing in response to your letter dated 29 April 2025 concerning the incident on the morning of 23 April 2025, where I was questioned by a member of rail staff for Southeastern regarding travelling without a valid ticket for the full journey from Higham to Abbey Wood.

I foolishly purchased a non-valid anytime day return from Higham to Northfleet instead of for the full journey. I fully acknowledge that this was wrong and deeply regret my stupid actions. The potential for prosecution has made me seriously consider the results of my actions and I sincerely apologise for any financial loss or administrative trouble you may have experienced. I now understand the impact fare evasion has on the railway industry and regret my actions deeply.

This experience has been a wake-up call for me, and I can assure you I will never do this again. Following this incident, I have never repeated the foolish actions I made, and I will continue to ensure I am always travelling with a valid and appropriate ticket for all of my journeys.

I am fully committed to acting responsibly going forward and hope this matter can be resolved without court proceedings. I would be extremely grateful if you would consider settling this matter out of court by allowing me to cover all fees, including any administrative costs you may have incurred that you deem appropriate in order to resolve this issue without further legal action.

Once again, I offer my sincere apologies and assure you that this will not happen again. Thank you for considering my response. I look forward to your response.

Yours sincerely,
My name

Some questions I had were

1) In regard to not mentioning any previous offences, what are your thoughts on the way I responded in this draft in the context of the letter I received? Can you advise on how to improve?
2) I am unsure how they will base my out of court settlement as in actuality I short fared 9 times but this may seem like more when inspecting my trainline account as I would need to show additional supporting evidence for my journies to show that these other journies were geniune although i'm not really sure how I can prove this without CCTV or anything of the sort. (I am happy to pay any settlement figure within reason regardless of the number of journies they base the settlement figure on but I was just wondering if anyone is aware/come across on how the fee is worked out from their investigation)
3) Would you recommend printing out my finalised response (once reviewed by members of the forum) and updating the information requested and posting these to the address detailed via recorded/tracked delivery as well as emailing the same to prosecutions.team@southeasternrailway.co.uk?

Thank you in advance for any feedback.


View attachment 179587View attachment 179588

 

[30907]

The letter is fine, though could be more succinct (maybe that's just my style).

I think you have addressed the specific incident (which is what they asked about) but not denied possible others so that's OK.

I agree with the belt-and-braces approach to sending it, but hang 24hr on for others to comment

 

[WesternLancer]

Firstly thank you @30907 and @WesternLancer for taking the time to respond. Your insights and advice were both reassuring and incredibly insightful.

UPDATE: Today I received the letter from Southeastern through the post (see attached below).

I have drafted a response below and would greatly appreciate any suggestions/advice before I send this to southeastern. I really want to show how I have learned from this incident and will never again do this as well as ultimately get an out of court settlement.

Dear Southeastern Debt Recovery & Prosecutions Manager,
Ref: (insert case ref)
I am writing in response to your letter dated 29 April 2025 concerning the incident on the morning of 23 April 2025, where I was questioned by a member of rail staff for Southeastern regarding travelling without a valid ticket for the full journey from Higham to Abbey Wood.

I foolishly purchased a non-valid anytime day return from Higham to Northfleet instead of for the full journey. I fully acknowledge that this was wrong and deeply regret my stupid actions. The potential for prosecution has made me seriously consider the results of my actions and I sincerely apologise for any financial loss or administrative trouble you may have experienced. I now understand the impact fare evasion has on the railway industry and regret my actions deeply.

This experience has been a wake-up call for me, and I can assure you I will never do this again. Following this incident, I have never repeated the foolish actions I made, and I will continue to ensure I am always travelling with a valid and appropriate ticket for all of my journeys.

I am fully committed to acting responsibly going forward and hope this matter can be resolved without court proceedings. I would be extremely grateful if you would consider settling this matter out of court by allowing me to cover all fees, including any administrative costs you may have incurred that you deem appropriate in order to resolve this issue without further legal action.

Once again, I offer my sincere apologies and assure you that this will not happen again. Thank you for considering my response. I look forward to your response.

Yours sincerely,
My name

Some questions I had were

1) In regard to not mentioning any previous offences, what are your thoughts on the way I responded in this draft in the context of the letter I received? Can you advise on how to improve?
2) I am unsure how they will base my out of court settlement as in actuality I short fared 9 times but this may seem like more when inspecting my trainline account as I would need to show additional supporting evidence for my journies to show that these other journies were geniune although i'm not really sure how I can prove this without CCTV or anything of the sort. (I am happy to pay any settlement figure within reason regardless of the number of journies they base the settlement figure on but I was just wondering if anyone is aware/come across on how the fee is worked out from their investigation)
3) Would you recommend printing out my finalised response (once reviewed by members of the forum) and updating the information requested and posting these to the address detailed via recorded/tracked delivery as well as emailing the same to prosecutions.team@southeasternrailway.co.uk?

Thank you in advance for any feedback.


View attachment 179587View attachment 179588

Minor point ref your draft - I'd be tempted to change the word 'fee' to 'fare' in this bit

....me to cover all fees, including any administrative costs you may have incurred....

EG 'allowing me to pay any fare owed, and any administrative....'

Otherwise draft looks pretty good to me

Re your questions

1) does not look to me like the letter they have sent is asking about other occasions so the usual advice here is not to mention them at this stage - but be aware they may come back to you and ask about it - in which case it can be addressed then. You must expect them to review your ticket buying records

2) Can be considered if they ask about it - but they would just use the online records they can access (they won't be looking at CCTV going back in time) - if they believe you are co-operating and being honest with them they will likely believe what you say about other instances. Wait until it happens and then seek advice on here. If some of your travel with with legitimate tickets to various places try and see if you have any evidence of going there and plausible reason why for example (I went to visit x address because of y reason) - think if you have payment card receipts or bank card record from being at that location on that day from eg a shop or cafe. If they were e-tickets did you scan them at barriers entering and exiting stations - that would show you had been there and they may have access to scanning records relating to your tickets if they investigate all of this

3) Yes, e-mail as they request but also print and post it (using 'tracked postage' not the more expensive guaranteed next day delivery) from a local post office. write on the hard copy 'as sent by email on xx date' making sure the hard copy has your ref number, name, date of birth and postal address on it too. You need to be sure they get it and South Eastern have been on here losing copies of replies their end which creates problems for people, so do anything you can to make it easier for them not to loose your reply.

 

[Ran1010]

The letter is fine, though could be more succinct (maybe that's just my style).

I think you have addressed the specific incident (which is what they asked about) but not denied possible others so that's OK.

I agree with the belt-and-braces approach to sending it, but hang 24hr on for others to comment

@30907 Thank you for insights and also taking the time to read through my draft. Noted on all the points you have mentioned.

Minor point ref your draft - I'd be tempted to change the word 'fee' to 'fare' in this bit



EG 'allowing me to pay any fare owed, and any administrative....'

Otherwise draft looks pretty good to me

Re your questions

1) does not look to me like the letter they have sent is asking about other occasions so the usual advice here is not to mention them at this stage - but be aware they may come back to you and ask about it - in which case it can be addressed then. You must expect them to review your ticket buying records

2) Can be considered if they ask about it - but they would just use the online records they can access (they won't be looking at CCTV going back in time) - if they believe you are co-operating and being honest with them they will likely believe what you say about other instances. Wait until it happens and then seek advice on here. If some of your travel with with legitimate tickets to various places try and see if you have any evidence of going there and plausible reason why for example (I went to visit x address because of y reason) - think if you have payment card receipts or bank card record from being at that location on that day from eg a shop or cafe. If they were e-tickets did you scan them at barriers entering and exiting stations - that would show you had been there and they may have access to scanning records relating to your tickets if they investigate all of this

3) Yes, e-mail as they request but also print and post it (using 'tracked postage' not the more expensive guaranteed next day delivery) from a local post office. write on the hard copy 'as sent by email on xx date' making sure the hard copy has your ref number, name, date of birth and postal address on it too. You need to be sure they get it and South Eastern have been on here losing copies of replies their end which creates problems for people, so do anything you can to make it easier for them not to loose your reply.

@WesternLancer Equally thankful for your help and taking the time to respond. Noted on your suggestion to change to fare as opposed to fee.

1) Understood. I will maintain my current draft with your suggested amendment and should it be raised later I will address then.

2) Would be difficult to show concrete proof such as those suggested as these were family visits and I took this journey for convience over taking bus. I am not too fussed on whether they include these costs as part of hopefully an out of court settlement but again like you suggest I will seek advice here upon further developments should they arise.

3) Noted. Very useful tip regarding adding the detail of the email on the hard copy and making sure the hard copy has my ref number, name, date of birth and postal address on it too. Yeah agreed as it does appear in some cases Southeastern mail has been misplaced and consequently it has led to prosecution however in all the cases i read up on it has eventually been dropped after they followed up asking whether they received the intial response and lucikly they were offered the out of court settlement.


I think I will until Saturday/Monday to give time for any further comments from the forum. Following this I will sent out the email and letter following your tips/advice. Thank you both again.

 

[WesternLancer]

@30907 Thank you for insights and also taking the time to read through my draft. Noted on all the points you have mentioned.

@WesternLancer Equally thankful for your help and taking the time to respond. Noted on your suggestion to change to fare as opposed to fee.

1) Understood. I will maintain my current draft with your suggested amendment and should it be raised later I will address then.

2) Would be difficult to show concrete proof such as those suggested as these were family visits and I took this journey for convience over taking bus. I am not too fussed on whether they include these costs as part of hopefully an out of court settlement but again like you suggest I will seek advice here upon further developments should they arise.

3) Noted. Very useful tip regarding adding the detail of the email on the hard copy and making sure the hard copy has my ref number, name, date of birth and postal address on it too. Yeah agreed as it does appear in some cases Southeastern mail has been misplaced and consequently it has led to prosecution however in all the cases i read up on it has eventually been dropped after they followed up asking whether they received the intial response and lucikly they were offered the out of court settlement.


I think I will until Saturday/Monday to give time for any further comments from the forum. Following this I will sent out the email and letter following your tips/advice. Thank you both again.

Thanks - looks like you are preparing thoroughly which is good.

ref

2) Would be difficult to show concrete proof such as those suggested as these were family visits and I took this journey for convience over taking bus.

I think just showing that you have family members with addresses near the relevant stations would be the sort of thing that makes the journey plausible etc

3) however in all the cases i read up on it has eventually been dropped after they followed up asking whether they received the intial response and lucikly they were offered the out of court settlement.

Yes, you are correct, they were resolved as you say - just the hassle of doing that in a very tight time window esp if say you happened to be on holiday and missed the court papers whilst away and lost time - obv all best avoided if at all possible

 

[Haywain]

I think I will until Saturday/Monday to give time for any further comments from the forum.

At this stage you haven't been asked to provide proof of anything, just to complete the form they have sent you. From their perspective it is an honesty test as well as a source of information and they will make an assessment of whether you are being honest when you return it. Only after that should you worry about proof is you are asked for more.