Southeastern reply time after initial fare evasion letter

[DamzFX]

Hello all, I was hoping to get some advice on next steps. I have been reading some forum threads on here of others who's gone through similar scenarios with southeastern and I have followed prior guidance, sent a letter off and got confirmation of a signature from someone called "Sharon" and that it was received on the 9th of October 2024. Initial letter from southeastern prosecutuons was written on 3rd of October 2024 but I received it on 7th of October at my flat. I'm unsure what to do next because I've not yet been sent the second letter on their response. Should I contact the prosecutions email address to confirm they received my letter back? Or should I still sit tight and wait it out? It's the 31st of October now and the original letter said to respond within 21 days which I have done. Given it's now past this date, I'm not sure if the right approach is to contact them via email or wait.

Do let me know what you think.

Thanks in advance!

 

[notmyrealname]

Hi.

I expect the knowledgeable people will be here soon. I think the advice is usually to wait until they contact you.

It would be helpful for the advisers to see Southeastern's letter and your reply, perhaps you could post them please? Be sure to cover up your personal details and their reference number.

 

[DamzFX]

Here is the letter from southeastern cropped and my letter which I printed out and signed. Unfortunately I forgot to take a picture of the letter but I have still the word doc in which it was made.

 

[WesternLancer]

I don't want to alarm you but there have been some recent cases on here of people suddenly getting prosecution letters from the court associated with Southeastern cases. All the info suggests SE Trains are losing paperwork their end in my view - so you need to be aware of that.

- How did you reply to them? e-mail or post or both?

- if post did you send it signed for / tracked or do you have any other proof of receipt (if not I would send it again using such a service, perhaps with a short polite covering note explaining you are sending this again as you want to be sure they received your response to their letter)

- Did it have your clear details on it so they could match your reply with their case (eg ref number, full name, full post address) - if not send it again with those in it

It may be worth expecting a wait of 4 to 6 weeks for them to reply to your case, but in the light of the several reported missing replies I mention (search forum for SE Trains cases and you'll find them I expect - they have been in the last 3 or 4 weeks IIRC) then I think it may be worth you taking action.

 

[DamzFX]

Thank you so much for your reply. It's great to hear such quick responses from others, i appreciate your attention to my case and for the advices.

- How did you reply to them? e-mail or post or both?

- if post did you send it signed for / tracked or do you have any other proof of receipt (if not I would send it again using such a service, perhaps with a short polite covering note explaining you are sending this again as you want to be sure they received your response to their letter)

I replied to them by post with an included letter of my apology (contents in the post i posted above with attached photo) and this was next day guaranteed delivery via royal mail. i have the receipt and i see in the royal mail app that this was signed and accepted by someone named Sharon.

Did it have your clear details on it so they could match your reply with their case (eg ref number, full name, full post address) - if not send it again with those in it

I posted this with my address ,name and the original reference on the initial southeastern reply.
i have also noticed this too (about others who's received prosecution letters after their initial letter). But so far i believe in everyone's case, they tried contacting them via email AFTER they had received the prosecution letter. In my case i have yet to receive a second response, other than the initial one which you can see a crop photo i posted above.

So i'm just wondering whether you think it's worth sending an email to the southeastern prosecutions now or wait until the second letter response from them? To be clear, on royal mail it says my letter back to them got signed and received on the 9th of October 2024, i've not heard back since their first initial letter arrived on the 7th of October 2024.

What do you think?

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you so much for your reply. It's great to hear such quick responses from others, i appreciate your attention to my case and for the advices.

- How did you reply to them? e-mail or post or both?

- if post did you send it signed for / tracked or do you have any other proof of receipt (if not I would send it again using such a service, perhaps with a short polite covering note explaining you are sending this again as you want to be sure they received your response to their letter)

I replied to them by post with an included letter of my apology (contents in the post i posted above with attached photo) and this was next day guaranteed delivery via royal mail. i have the receipt and i see in the royal mail app that this was signed and accepted by someone named Sharon.

Did it have your clear details on it so they could match your reply with their case (eg ref number, full name, full post address) - if not send it again with those in it

I posted this with my address ,name and the original reference on the initial southeastern reply.
i have also noticed this too (about others who's received prosecution letters after their initial letter). But so far i believe in everyone's case, they tried contacting them via email AFTER they had received the prosecution letter. In my case i have yet to receive a second response, other than the initial one which you can see a crop photo i posted above.

So i'm just wondering whether you think it's worth sending an email to the southeastern prosecutions now or wait until the second letter response from them? To be clear, on royal mail it says my letter back to them got signed and received on the 9th of October 2024, i've not heard back since their first initial letter arrived on the 7th of October 2024.

What do you think?

OK - looks like you did all you could do to get it to them and make sure it wasn't lost.

I think in the cases I recall recently the problem was the person never got the 'second response' from SET - just a court summons suddenly arrived and then its v stressful to sort it out with fewer days to do that and they have incurred more costs by sending it to court which they then may charge you for which could otherwise presumably have been avoided. So you can't be sure to wait indefinitely for a second letter that may never come.

Maybe wait for 6 weeks after your letter was received by them, and if you have not heard by then, send an e-mail that includes a copy of your earlier response and a very brief polite covering message that says
eg 'I am keen to resolve this without the need for court action and am writing at this stage to check you had received my earlier letter (as attached / copied below) and if you were minded to offer me the chance to settle the matter out of court' or some such wording.

 

[DamzFX]

OK - looks like you did all you could do to get it to them and make sure it wasn't lost.

I think in the cases I recall recently the problem was the person never got the 'second response' from SET - just a court summons suddenly arrived and then its v stressful to sort it out with fewer days to do that and they have incurred more costs by sending it to court which they then may charge you for which could otherwise presumably have been avoided. So you can't be sure to wait indefinitely for a second letter that may never come.

Maybe wait for 6 weeks after your letter was received by them, and if you have not heard by then, send an e-mail that includes a copy of your earlier response and a very brief polite covering message that says
eg 'I am keen to resolve this without the need for court action and am writing at this stage to check you had received my earlier letter (as attached / copied below) and if you were minded to offer me the chance to settle the matter out of court' or some such wording.

Ahh I see what you mean. That's a good point actually. Yes, i think this is a reasonable compromise. I'll take your suggestion and wait until it's been 6 weeks and email them then if I've not heard from southeastern.

Really appreciate your responses. What you and others do in these forums are a real service and lifesaver for those who have had to go through this process. Hopefully this ends with an out of court settlement, I did my best in my letter to portray how sorry and silly it was for me to do fare evasion, so I hope that comes across well.

Wish me the best! I'll keep everyone posted on any further developments to help others who may be going through something similar.

 

[WesternLancer]

Ahh I see what you mean. That's a good point actually. Yes, i think this is a reasonable compromise. I'll take your suggestion and wait until it's been 6 weeks and email them then if I've not heard from southeastern.

Really appreciate your responses. What you and others do in these forums are a real service and lifesaver for those who have had to go through this process. Hopefully this ends with an out of court settlement, I did my best in my letter to portray how sorry and silly it was for me to do fare evasion, so I hope that comes across well.

Wish me the best! I'll keep everyone posted on any further developments to help others who may be going through something similar.

Yes, good luck - I think v good chance of an out of court settlement so long as they have not lost your letter. It's annoying that they do lose stuff and seem to have had several such incidences here recently.

edit

this case may be worth a look - dates show timeline and it also included lost response. That may help you determine when you think best to follow things up and the approach the OP in that case used seems a good one.

Southeastern Letter

Hi all, I wondered if you can help me with drafting a response letter to Southeastern. I was caught short faring earlier this month and have now received their letter. Having looked through some of the posts on the forum I have drafted a response with the advice I found on some of the threads...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[DamzFX]

Hello, thanks for sharing that forum thread. I see they attached the response letter that got back, however i can't seem to view it for some reason, can you? If so, able to repost it here?

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello, thanks for sharing that forum thread. I see they attached the response letter that got back, however i can't seem to view it for some reason, can you? If so, able to repost it here?

No I can't access it wither - I assume the original poster on that thread has taken it down now.

 

[DamzFX]

Just to update i have decided to send an email today and got a reply back with the following:



I'm glad that they confirm receipt of my letter posted back to them, i just really hope this will be resolved out-of-court....

I'll also post my email to them for reference for others who may be in similar situations:

 

[annie2660]

Hi DamzFX, can I ask whether they got back in touch with you and if so, what they responded with?

 

[DamzFX]

They have not, what is your specific situation? Is it similar? When did your incident happen and what stage are you at?

 

[30907]

Hi DamzFX, can I ask whether they got back in touch with you and if so, what they responded with?

It would help if you started a new thread if you want advice from forum members, as every situation is slightly different.

 

[DamzFX]

Hello Everyone,

Sorry for the wait. I have now received a summons letter to appear at the Bexley Court. I will attach all letters sent. What should i do? I really would like to opportunity to resolve this out of court, is there still any possibility that i can do this? Also i'm uncertain of the total fine and prosecution costs that i will be given if i plead guilty should there be no other way to resolve out of court. Can someone clarify the amount i will be fined? and also whether this conviction would be charged under byelaws or RoRa? I'm not sure and want to gain clarity on whether this will appear as a criminal record. Please help. This is quite time constraint and would like to resolve this matter as soon as possible.

I appreciate any who can help gain some clarity as to the fine, my options, and what the conviction will entail if i go down the court route.

Attached all letters sent below marked out personal details.

 

[island]

I really would like to opportunity to resolve this out of court, is there still any possibility that i can do this?

Yes, you would need to contact the prosecutions manager between now and your court date, or speak to him on the day.

Also i'm uncertain of the total fine and prosecution costs that i will be given if i plead guilty should there be no other way to resolve out of court. Can someone clarify the amount i will be fined?

• £150 costs
• £9.20 compensation
• Fine of (likely) a week's income, or £120 if you are a student or on benefits, reduced by a third if you plead guilty
• Surcharge of 40% of the fine

and also whether this conviction would be charged under byelaws or RoRa?

As stated on the summons, you are bring charged under the RoRA.

I'm not sure and want to gain clarity on whether this will appear as a criminal record.

If you are convicted you will have a criminal record yes. It will be spent after a year.

 

[DamzFX]

Yes, you would need to contact the prosecutions manager between now and your court date, or speak to him on the day.

• £150 costs
• £9.20 compensation
• Fine of (likely) a week's income, or £120 if you are a student or on benefits, reduced by a third if you plead guilty
• Surcharge of 40% of the fine

As stated on the summons, you are bring charged under the RoRA.

If you are convicted you will have a criminal record yes. It will be spent after a year.

I appreciate you breaking this down for me. Could I gain some assistance on how to plead my case to be settled for an out of court settlement? I understand their email is prosecutions.team@southeasternrailway.co.uk as I have contacted them before to confirm they had received my apology letter.

I heard there is also a southeastern prosecutions number I can call? Does anyone have this? I figure I should also proactively call about my case humbly requesting for an out of court settlement too after posting to them again requesting as such.

Help in formulating a response back would be appreciated!

 

[furlong]

Did you, on the trains you took that day, stop at, or pass through Denmark Hill?

When did you buy your ticket in relation to your journey and in relation to Denmark Hill? Prior to departure from Swanley? On the journey soon after departure? Much later on the journey? If the trains stopped or passed through Denmark Hill did you buy the ticket before or after this point?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Feb 2025 ==

(I never really understand prosecutions like this one when there appear to be more straightforward ways to do things. The accusation appears to be that AFTER you had paid to travel between Denmark Hill and London Terminals you travelled "BEYOND that distance" without first paying the additional fare. Somehow they argue that the portion of the journey prior to the part you paid for counts as "beyond" - yet they don't even mention what time the ticket was purchased in relation to the time its validity was first used.)

 

[DamzFX]

I have thankfully been given an opportunity to settle out of court (thank god) and I have now paid the amount online. Is there anything else I need to do such as letting the courts know we have settled out of court? Or will southeastern do this from their side?

I have attached some pictures for awareness and to help those who are going through a similar scenario. I had sent emails apologising and asking for the opportunity to settle out of court (on the same day I received the court summons, and again in the morning with some additional points, such as mentioning I've been as proactive and as cooperative as possible throughout the process.) As well as calling in to the payment line to let them know I tried to reach them. The combination of this and that I don't have any prior convictions I think led to them offering me this out of court settlement. I hope others reading who are in similar situations are able to get this outcome too. I wish everyone the best of luck and to not fare evade ever again!

 

[Cuthbert]

Keep the paper work of payment for a few years.

 

[DamzFX]

There was no paperwork other than the court summons letter and contents. I onyl have a screenshot of the one I shared saying payment has been successful. I'll of course stash that on my phone somewhere safe in case it needs to be referenced. Do I need to contact the courts to let them know we've settled out of court? Or does southeastern close this out for you?

 

[WesternLancer]

I have thankfully been given an opportunity to settle out of court (thank god) and I have now paid the amount online. Is there anything else I need to do such as letting the courts know we have settled out of court? Or will southeastern do this from their side?

Don't rely on them unless you have it in writing. Before the court date that was listed I would check with the court that the case has been withdrawn - ideally again in writing eg e-mail.

 

[DamzFX]

Makes sense. I'll first message the Southeastern Prosecutions via email to confirm they got my payment and whether further action needs to be taken on my part. I'm unsure if Bexley magistrates has an email I can reach them over... Going to look now

 

[WesternLancer]

Makes sense. I'll first message the Southeastern Prosecutions via email to confirm they got my payment and whether further action needs to be taken on my part. I'm unsure if Bexley magistrates has an email I can reach them over... Going to look now

if no e-mail for bexley magistrates then you could ring to see if your case withdrawn - do this before the court date but it may take a few days for the railway to withdraw the case, if you have time to wait it may save you unnecessary work.

 

[DamzFX]

I sent another email to southeastern to confirm receipt of my payment and to ask them if they there is anything left for me to do on our side. this is what i got:



Given this reply i will consider the matter closed. Thanks again for everyone's help (especially WesternLancer who has assisted me since the beginning of my case). The support, advice and help this forum has given to people in our position has been immensely useful and definitely helped to calm my nerves throughout the whole process. Just glad now this is over and will definitely be spreading my gospel so others are never tempted to fare evade!

 

[WesternLancer]

I sent another email to southeastern to confirm receipt of my payment and to ask them if they there is anything left for me to do on our side. this is what i got:

View attachment 174186

Given this reply i will consider the matter closed. Thanks again for everyone's help (especially WesternLancer who has assisted me since the beginning of my case). The support, advice and help this forum has given to people in our position has been immensely useful and definitely helped to calm my nerves throughout the whole process. Just glad now this is over and will definitely be spreading my gospel so others are never tempted to fare evade!

Yes. I think just keep a copy of that e mail long term. Eg for more than a year. And good luck for the future.

 

[blessing]

I have thankfully been given an opportunity to settle out of court (thank god) and I have now paid the amount online. Is there anything else I need to do such as letting the courts know we have settled out of court? Or will southeastern do this from their side?

I have attached some pictures for awareness and to help those who are going through a similar scenario. I had sent emails apologising and asking for the opportunity to settle out of court (on the same day I received the court summons, and again in the morning with some additional points, such as mentioning I've been as proactive and as cooperative as possible throughout the process.) As well as calling in to the payment line to let them know I tried to reach them. The combination of this and that I don't have any prior convictions I think led to them offering me this out of court settlement. I hope others reading who are in similar situations are able to get this outcome too. I wish everyone the best of luck and to not fare evade ever again!

How long did it take for them to get back to you

 

[30907]

How long did it take for them to get back to you

As the person you are asking last posted 4 months ago, I will reply: if you look at the sequence of their posts it was well within a week.