Southeastern problems post timetable change

[Peterthegreat]

Services may not always “need” their booked time, but are timetabled that way for a multitude of reasons. Trains at Charing Cross have anywhere between 8-25 minutes. Crew have minimum turn around times - dependent on stock length - and therefore this could be less than the booked time.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jan 2023 ==



The point is whether it could have run as booked and then terminated at London Bridge and still departed on time, as it made minimal time running fast from Ashford - Paddock Wood. I would suggest yes, but someone would need to take an in depth look at timings and the stopper from Sevenoaks especially or whether that could be held for a couple of minutes. It’s never an exact science

I am fully aware how train services run. However you seem to be of the impression trains will need their booked time at Charing Cross but not at London Bridge. This is clearly nonsense.

 

[fusionblue]

I don’t see any reason why the PPM would decrease? The entire point of the timetable was to remove conflicting points at Lewisham

What's happened in practice is the conflicting movements has been shifted elsewhere. I've been held up on the approach to and from the Hayes line (I forget the junction name that bypasses Lewisham) at least once daily since the timetable change, in addition to the Tanners Hill flydown waiting for a slot on the up fast to London Bridge.

I still partly lay blame for this to the Thameslink Project, with its big bright marketing of "untangling tracks" but did nothing largely around Lewisham, Hither Green or Denmark Hill to Elephant - while simultaneously introducing the Thameslink Rainham service which now crosses all the Cannon Street tracks to get to Deptford.

 

[Class800]

That is also what I was thinking

At London Bridge there may also be more of a hurry to vacate the platform expeditiously for the next through service

 

[Starmill]

At London Bridge there may also be more of a hurry to vacate the platform expeditiously for the next through service

Did the train turn back in a through platform at London Bridge?

 

[Edsmith]

I use Southeastern regularly and generally find them ok and often when problems do happen it's down to the infrastructure and people seem to automatically blame the new timetable.

 

[Class800]

Did the train turn back in a through platform at London Bridge?

Are there any non through platforms on the Southeastern side?

 

[zwk500]

Are there any non through platforms on the Southeastern side?

No, but you can access the bay platforms from the Charing Cross lines. However that would transfer delays across lines so would be the last resort

 

[Gorlash1886]

They will normally use platform 8 to turn around

 

[43066]

What's happened in practice is the conflicting movements has been shifted elsewhere. I've been held up on the approach to and from the Hayes line (I forget the junction name that bypasses Lewisham) at least once daily since the timetable change, in addition to the Tanners Hill flydown waiting for a slot on the up fast to London Bridge.

Parks Brige/Ladywell Loop.

Although not many, I presume that mat have been a slight exaggeration, but there was a debate with 2 MPs from SE London, who weren't too happy about the changes. I can't find the debate itself, but I have bee able to retrieve the transcript, if you want to look.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2022-12-06/debates/11B2B2CD-2C65-46D7-8EF1-4A2EAEB3F6B7/SoutheasternRailwayTimetableChanges

Fair enough. Some of that criticism is perfectly valid, to be fair. I do think there may also be an element of people blaming the infrastructure issues on the timetable, though.

 

[Class800]

They will normally use platform 8 to turn around

Terminators do sometimes use the Cannon St platforms too, but whatever you do, it is awkward

 

[CFRAIL]

It has seemed inadequate recently, caused by various issues though. Mostly infrastructure, TSR, weather related and not to mention the industrial action too. Most mainline services have seemed okay though but I think metro is suffering.

 

[SandsofEss]

This is a timely thread for me, as I've been wondering whether there's any scope for the new timetable to be adjusted in May.

I commute daily from Marden to Tunbridge Wells. Since the timetable change, connections at Tonbridge are much poorer, particularly on the return leg. At most times of the day, there's now a 22 minute wait baked in, with the exception of a few connections around 18:00 that are 16 minutes.

I get that there are winners and losers with any change (and others are worse off than I am), but I'm now having to leave work thirty minutes earlier than previously in order to make it to other commitments on time. I much prefer to commute by train (and have held an annual season ticket for 24 years), but I'm now seriously considering whether I need to switch to car instead, which pains me to type.

Is there any point in me writing to Southeastern to ask for Tonbridge connections to be improved?

 

[zwk500]

This is a timely thread for me, as I've been wondering whether there's any scope for the new timetable to be adjusted in May.

I commute daily from Marden to Tunbridge Wells. Since the timetable change, connections at Tonbridge are much poorer, particularly on the return leg. At most times of the day, there's now a 22 minute wait baked in, with the exception of a few connections around 18:00 that are 16 minutes.

I get that there are winners and losers with any change (and others are worse off than I am), but I'm now having to leave work thirty minutes earlier than previously in order to make it to other commitments on time. I much prefer to commute by train (and have held an annual season ticket for 24 years), but I'm now seriously considering whether I need to switch to car instead, which pains me to type.

Is there any point in me writing to Southeastern to ask for Tonbridge connections to be improved?

Any changes suggested now won't take effect for nearly 2 years. SE are required to submit their bid for the base timetable 64 weeks before operation, which means they will be working on it a long time before that.

But still worth writing in, or getting others to support you in doing so. There are various things that can be done through the short-term processes to help.

 

[CFRAIL]

There's certainly a link on southeasternrailway.co.uk that you can click on to provide timetable feedback and hopefully it'll lead to positive changes.

 

[BluePenguin]

At London Bridge there may also be more of a hurry to vacate the platform expeditiously for the next through service

There wasn’t, it sat there until well after we had left on the next Charing Cross service

Did the train turn back in a through platform at London Bridge?

Yes it did, it reversed

 

[Gorlash1886]

I can assure you it would not have reversed, the driver would have changed ends

 

[Class800]

I can assure you it would not have reversed, the driver would have changed ends

Is that not what a reversal means? Changing ends

 

[Gorlash1886]

No

 

[BluePenguin]

I can assure you it would not have reversed, the driver would have changed ends

Is that not what a reversal means? Changing ends

Of course that is what I meant

 

[zwk500]

I can assure you it would not have reversed, the driver would have changed ends

No

A Reverse move is defined as one where the driver changes ends.

 

[Gorlash1886]

The scenario depicted above which I responded to is not a reversal though the driver would have been instructed to terminate the journey, change ends and start again which would be driving in the correct direction. A reversal by changing ends to move back in the platform would be by definition a wrong direction movement which this was not. Southeastern drivers are not permitted to drive in reverse other than at pre determined locations such as the Strood shunt.



The poster already cleared up what he meant, I posted so people didn't think they were just driving in reverse for fun.

 

[BluePenguin]

The scenario depicted above which I responded to is not a reversal though the driver would have been instructed to terminate the journey, change ends and start again which would be driving in the correct direction. A reversal by changing ends to move back in the platform would be by definition a wrong direction movement which this was not. Southeastern drivers are not permitted to drive in reverse other than at pre determined locations such as the Strood shunt.



The poster already cleared up what he meant, I posted so people didn't think they were just driving in reverse for fun.

With respect we were all already singing from the same hymn sheet. I don’t think anybody thought I was talking about the driver putting the train into reverse gear

 

[Gorlash1886]

Agreed

 

[Horizon22]

I am fully aware how train services run. However you seem to be of the impression trains will need their booked time at Charing Cross but not at London Bridge. This is clearly nonsense.

Why? I've explained that there are minimum turnaround times, and not every train is booked to have a minimum turnaround time at a terminus. I appreciate that you could cut into the booked turnaround time to take it to minimum, if that's what's your talking about.

 

[ScotGG]

Big problems tonight at London Bridge. Police having to be called due to dangerous crowding.

Many issues at play that are not the fault of south eastern but cutting services is adding to it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jan 2023 ==

I use Southeastern regularly and generally find them ok and often when problems do happen it's down to the infrastructure and people seem to automatically blame the new timetable.

The new timetable exacerbates other issues which have long existed. Those issues will continue to exist, but will now have a worse impact. Police rarely had to close London Bridge and we didn't see the sites of tonight.

 

[Horizon22]

Big problems tonight at London Bridge. Police having to be called due to dangerous crowding.

Many issues at play but SE cutting services is adding to it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jan 2023 ==



The new timetable exacerbates other issues which have long existed. Those issues will continue to exist, but will now have a worse impact. Police rarely had to close London Bridge and we didn't see the sites of tonight.

Tresspasser at Hither Green in the peak.

 

[Peterthegreat]

Why? I've explained that there are minimum turnaround times, and not every train is booked to have a minimum turnaround time at a terminus. I appreciate that you could cut into the booked turnaround time to take it to minimum, if that's what's your talking about.

It's nonsense because you were comparing the booked turnround times at Charing Cross with minimum times at London Bridge.

 

[Horizon22]

It's nonsense because you were comparing the booked turnround times at Charing Cross with minimum times at London Bridge.

And minimum and booked are often (and normally) different?

 

[ComUtoR]

Are there any non through platforms on the Southeastern side?

Yes.

 

[WizCastro197]

Yes.

Don’t they just terminate in the Southern side, when they start from LBG?