Southeastern: potential stopgap to cover ageing Networkers

[adc82140]

Personally I’d like to see the 458/4 move to Southeastern eventually. This should see off the remaining 465/9s and 466s. The could replace them on Gillingham/Tunbridge Wells stoppers. Plus Soitheastern already have maintenance contracts with Alstom.

The above is from the Southeastern stock replacement thread. Is this a realistic option?

In the new world of GBR, a bit of joined up thinking could produce the following:

Reinstate from store the 350/2s onto the London North Western services (reseat if necessary), and then cascade the DC capable 350/1s to SouthEastern. SE already have Siemens stock in the form of 707s, so it wouldn't be an entirely new proposition to them.

Would this work?

 

[brad465]

Southeastern would ideally not want another fleet that has nothing in common with the rest of the fleet, given the extra cost of training staff and potentially adjusting DOO kit and platforms to accommodate them. This would rule out 350/1s, 458s and anything else not already at Southeastern. The only stock that might help is more 377s, but this would mean Southern need something else to replace them.

The reality is though that Southeastern have been subject to a poor environment for ordering new stock: first the constant short-term extensions of the Govia franchise prevented an environment in which a new fleet investment was worthwhile, then a combination of post-covid uncertainty and a DfT procurement setup that makes snails look like cheetahs has meant a new fleet still hasn't been approved. Had Govia had a long-term extension in 2018, a Networker replacement would already be in full service, or had the DfT been able to sign off the current tender in 2022, when it was put forward, the first units could be beginning testing with a view to being in service fully by the end of next year.

I wonder if it's worth considering setting up a proper procurement for bespoke parts for the units left, even if fairly expensive? They are sort of already doing this with the C4 overhauls the BREL units are about to receive, but if no other fleet alternatives exist for rest of the decade at least, they are not going to be able to rely on part-stripping forever.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Reinstate from store the 350/2s onto the London North Western services (reseat if necessary), and then cascade the DC capable 350/1s to SouthEastern. SE already have Siemens stock in the form of 707s, so it wouldn't be an entirely new proposition to them.

350/1s are no longer DC capable.
The equipment has long since been removed and other modifications have happened in the meantime. You have to remember it was some 17 years ago when 350/1s last ran on DC, a lot has changed since then.

To retrofit the equipment to current designs would be as easy/difficult on a 350/2 as it would a 350/1 - effectively a new design.

 

[Mikey C]

Southeastern would ideally not want another fleet that has nothing in common with the rest of the fleet, given the extra cost of training staff and potentially adjusting DOO kit and platforms to accommodate them. This would rule out 350/1s, 458s and anything else not already at Southeastern. The only stock that might help is more 377s, but this would mean Southern need something else to replace them.

The reality is though that Southeastern have been subject to a poor environment for ordering new stock: first the constant short-term extensions of the Govia franchise prevented an environment in which a new fleet investment was worthwhile, then a combination of post-covid uncertainty and a DfT procurement setup that makes snails look like cheetahs has meant a new fleet still hasn't been approved. Had Govia had a long-term extension in 2018, a Networker replacement would already be in full service, or had the DfT been able to sign off the current tender in 2022, when it was put forward, the first units could be beginning testing with a view to being in service fully by the end of next year.

I wonder if it's worth considering setting up a proper procurement for bespoke parts for the units left, even if fairly expensive? They are sort of already doing this with the C4 overhauls the BREL units are about to receive, but if no other fleet alternatives exist for rest of the decade at least, they are not going to be able to rely on part-stripping forever.

OR the Networkers could have had a COMPREHENSIVE refurbishment to comfortably last until say 2035. New interiors like the SWT 455s had, retractioning of the GEC ones etc. Instead they've been allowed to operate with just the bare minimum of changes inside, to keep them compliant.

It would be ludicrous to give Southeastern a 4th Metro type, but surely there will be spare 701s as SWR won't need them all. Especially if they keep the 458s themselves.