Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Again, it's an expensive seat reservation. If the train you normally get gets to your station full and standing, then it is for many worth it.
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Southeastern no more 1st class on long-distance services
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Again, it's an expensive seat reservation. If the train you normally get gets to your station full and standing, then it is for many worth it.
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WizCastro197
Established Member
Ah Not always, as trains which are full and standing often do have people sitting in FC despite not having a First Class ticket.Ah
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Sometimes it isn't enforced, but this can result in a PF or prosecution if the RPIs get on.
For Southeastern I don't think it's announced either at stations or on the train. Southeastern staff on Twitter say it can be used where present on metro routes which matches the timetable approach.
Kite159
Veteran Member
I've seen it announced a couple times on South Eastern on the evening peak Orpington extras which said something like "First Class can be used by all ticket holders" at Grove Park, when it was a 465/9.
As for South Eastern getting rid of 1st class, a good decision in my eyes. Gives a few extra seats for standard class, although I suspect the only time it will get filled up first will be on 375/9s by those "in the know". I suspect other London operators might follow suit if the DfT are not seeing that many First Class annual season tickets or even sales of 1st class tickets. South Eastern join Greater Anglia, GWR* & Chiltern in getting rid of 1st class (* on the Thames Valley stoppers/branches, bar North Downs).
As for South Eastern getting rid of 1st class, a good decision in my eyes. Gives a few extra seats for standard class, although I suspect the only time it will get filled up first will be on 375/9s by those "in the know". I suspect other London operators might follow suit if the DfT are not seeing that many First Class annual season tickets or even sales of 1st class tickets. South Eastern join Greater Anglia, GWR* & Chiltern in getting rid of 1st class (* on the Thames Valley stoppers/branches, bar North Downs).
Sleepy
Established Member
Except on GA Liverpool St. - Norwich services (which also retains a buffet ! GWR/DfT take note)
Kite159
Veteran Member
Unless a Stansted Express unit rocks up
[with a Norwich spec 745 on airport services]Also on Chiltern with the "Business Zone" on the Mk3s. Although I'm sure I read somewhere that no longer exists and the train is standard class throughout.
PaulJ
Member
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- 170
I'll be glad to see it go. I suspect most of the 28 season ticket holders have it paid for by their company. First class area on a 375 is difficult to adequately police - a 12 car unit will have 3 separate areas. Passengers travelling home from Victoria to Bromley will automatically sit on the 1st area at the end of the train as it is closest to the platform exit at Bromley. I don't believe it is right to ask people to vacate a first class seat and stand on a busy service if no one else holds a first class ticket. I'd rather declassified the area and apologise to the odd first class ticket holder suggesting an application for partial refund be made.
First Class was withdrawn with a little bit more consultation there though, and it always seemed pointless.
If people from Tunbridge Wells are willing to pay for First Class, and the evidence is fairly strong that they are, then making it slightly nicer was the answer. It's effectively free money.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I've long thought that about LNR. For the Brums and Crewes, I reckon there would be a decent market for "good quality 1st but slower" compared to "tight packed Standard but faster" on the Pendolino. In my view they went the wrong way by converting the /4s to 2+2, they should have converted the /1s and /3s to 2+1. And fitting Fainsa Sophias as 1st when Standard will be the superior Kiel seats is just making the same stupid mistake over again.
Was in LNWR 1st class on a morning peak service a few months ago leaving Watford and a RPI got on. First class was almost completely full but by the time he was done it was only me left. He mentioned something about being back on that service the day after and if he saw the same people again they would recieve PF's. I wonder if he was bluffing? I guess most people chance it due to how infrequently it is enforced.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Certainly LM was known for being fairly light touch on revenue enforcement on the south WCML. Prosecutions extremely rare, and PFs not that common (e.g. I've heard a conversation at MKC gateline along the lines of "I'll have to charge you a penalty fare to let you out, but if you go down to Platform 1 and go back to Bletchley I'll let you off"). So what you say isn't surprising.
As for 1st, as you say, if you look through the window at it at non-commuter times the demographics you see sitting there strike you as unlikely to be holders of First Class tickets.
So why is the North Downs still running with first class? At the times I travel, I'm not sure how popular it is.
How well used is first class on South Western Railway? It certainly looks nice than the first class on Govia Thameslink Railway. Would that encourage use?
Through journeys from the rest of the GWR network. Never that busy by observation.
Not as nice as before SWR wrecked it.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Personally I won't pay for 2+2 First unless it's to avoid overcrowding (and I resent having to do that when it's because the TOC/DfT can't be bothered ensuring enough capacity on a chronically overcrowded train). I've travelled 1st on LNR only a couple of times and they were all north of Northampton in the evening peak when everything north of Northampton was 4-car.
The thing I upgrade for is the 1 side, i.e. a seat that is both window and aisle, so I can be 100% sure of nobody sitting next to me and can both enjoy the view and go to the loo/buffet/my bag/whatever without having to ask someone to move. Without that I'm not interested.
Well I'm sure people using fbe New Line Guildford probably appreciate it.
When i was commuting from Guildford to Waterloo pre-Covid it was pretty busy. Even with my ticket some days I couldn't get a seat to had to wait for the next train.
Indeed it was. I was thinking more about post covid
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
I wonder how long it will take for signage to be removed
Hopefully quicker than a lot of their Covid signage, which seemed to linger on for far too long!
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
I’m sure TfW’s is still up.
Tesco continue to play their “let’s be on the safe side” announcement every fifteen minutes including face coverings so perhaps they’re the worst culprits in that respect.
Antimacassars surely wouldn’t take more than a week to remove.
busestrains
On Moderation
I notice that First Class tickets have been removed for Hastings to St Leonards Warrior Square and vice versa despite First Class still being available on all of the Southern trains (which is more than 50% of journeys) that run this route.
I presume this is likely just a mistake and this fare was accidentally removed? Will it be reinstated? If not how are people supposed to buy a First Class ticket for this journey now?
I presume this is likely just a mistake and this fare was accidentally removed? Will it be reinstated? If not how are people supposed to buy a First Class ticket for this journey now?
Kite159
Veteran Member
The number of first class tickets sold between Hastings & St Leonards Warrior Square in recent years must be a grand total of zero.
If it's like Greater Anglia, it will still be around. I can swear the former 1st class areas on the 321s still have notices up.
busestrains
On Moderation
I do not disagree. You are probably right. I can not imagine anyone buying a First Class ticket for such a journey. But that does not mean that they should remove the option. First Class still remains available on over 50% of trains running this route so First Class tickets should still be available.
The journey is a few hundred yards, so I doubt this will be an issue in practice!
alistairlees
Established Member
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They (antimacassars) were removed last night. Stickers on walls and windows will take a bit longer.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
The issue is getting people to buy any ticket on this flow.
While Warrior Square isn't gated, Hastings is which should mean that at least some tickets are sold. Presumably there is more of an issue on those journeys that involve stations other than Eastbourne, Bexhill, Hastings and Tunbridge Wells.
I can't imagine too many first class tickets were sold on Southeastern that didn't involve London in some way.
alistairlees
Established Member
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Yes, I know, thanks.
Yes, I recognise that the current unfit for purpose ticket gates on the British rail network are no deterent for people prepared to force them (or even climb over them), which may be the basis for your comment.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Fire safety (which we do better than most countries) means they have to be able to be burst through.
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