Southeastern mg11 advice and help

[traveller7]

Respected members,

I’m posting here because I made a very stupid mistake that I deeply regret and have promised myself will never happen again.

About five weeks ago, I was caught by a Southeastern revenue inspector without a valid ticket for the journey from A to B (I only travel this route on Fridays). In the moment, I panicked badly. I admitted—again in panic—that I had been doing this for around 4–5 weeks while travelling from A to E for work to save money, and I showed my Oyster card even though I don’t know why I did that.

Before he reached me, I also made the foolish choice of trying to avoid him by standing near door. I was very afraid and blank. He approached me, I cooperated fully. He took my details, checked my Oyster, and completed an MG11.

Since that day, I have tapped in properly every single time, and my Oyster history will clearly show this. I’ve spent the last few weeks reflecting and I’m honestly embarrassed and deeply regret my actions.

I was told it takes around 6–8 weeks to receive the first correspondence. I’m now in week 5, and the stress has been overwhelming, so I’m hoping for some guidance from those more experienced and grateful that this platform exists to help stupid people like myself.

My questions:

1. What should I expect in the initial correspondence from Southeastern?

(Letter of intention to prosecute? Request for my side of the story?)

2. How long are Oyster journey histories stored?

And what will they likely check when investigating—just the 4–5 weeks I stated, or will they review as far back as possible?

3. Can they access Oyster history older than 8 weeks?

If so, how might that affect their investigation and decision?

4. Is the burden on me to prove that this hasn’t been happening longer than the 4–5 weeks I admitted to?

5. I’m extremely anxious about the possibility of prosecution and a criminal record as it would impact my professional life massively.

Would it help or hurt my situation if I emailed Southeastern early with a humble, apologetic message before they contact me to ask about the case and what can I do to cooperate and resolve this out of court.

6. Is an out-of-court settlement likely in cases like mine?

I have no previous history of fines, warnings, or prosecutions of any kind.

Any guidance, realistic expectations, or advice on next steps would mean a lot. This has genuinely taken a toll on me, and I’m hoping to handle things properly from here on.

Thank you!

 

[WesternLancer]

Respected members,

I’m posting here because I made a very stupid mistake that I deeply regret and have promised myself will never happen again.

About five weeks ago, I was caught by a Southeastern revenue inspector without a valid ticket for the journey from Erith to Plumstead (I only travel this route on Fridays). In the moment, I panicked badly. I admitted—again in panic—that I had been doing this for around 4–5 weeks while travelling from Erith to Canary Wharf for work to save money, and I showed my Oyster card even though I don’t know why I did that. (He saw my journey only started and ended on abbeywood but I live in erith).

Before he reached me, I also made the foolish choice of trying to avoid him by standing near door. I was very afraid and blank. He approached me, I cooperated fully. He took my details, checked my Oyster, and completed an MG11.

Since that day, I have tapped in properly every single time, and my Oyster history will clearly show this. I’ve spent the last few weeks reflecting and I’m honestly embarrassed and deeply regret my actions.

I was told it takes around 6–8 weeks to receive the first correspondence. I’m now in week 5, and the stress has been overwhelming, so I’m hoping for some guidance from those more experienced and grateful that this platform exists to help stupid people like myself.

My questions:

1. What should I expect in the initial correspondence from Southeastern?

(Letter of intention to prosecute? Request for my side of the story?)

2. How long are Oyster journey histories stored?

And what will they likely check when investigating—just the 4–5 weeks I stated, or will they review as far back as possible?

3. Can they access Oyster history older than 8 weeks?

If so, how might that affect their investigation and decision?

4. Is the burden on me to prove that this hasn’t been happening longer than the 4–5 weeks I admitted to?

5. I’m extremely anxious about the possibility of prosecution and a criminal record as it would impact my professional life massively.

Would it help or hurt my situation if I emailed Southeastern early with a humble, apologetic message before they contact me to ask about the case and what can I do to cooperate and resolve this out of court.

6. Is an out-of-court settlement likely in cases like mine?

I have no previous history of fines, warnings, or prosecutions of any kind.

Any guidance, realistic expectations, or advice on next steps would mean a lot. This has genuinely taken a toll on me, and I’m hoping to handle things properly from here on.

Thank you!

welcome - you will get answers / well informed views to all your questions here. It's almost always advised here not to contact the railway company about what's happened until they contact you, so you can see what they are specifically asking. Easy to say but try not to stress too much about this because you will get good advice from people here.

In the mean time this general advice written by an experienced forum member might be helpful for you to read:


Firstly, you committed a criminal offence by travelling with an invalid ticket and railway companies are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court if they want to. The good news is they will normally offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before.

Next, what happens is the railway company will write to you. The letter will go to the address that you gave them / on any of your ID they checked so you need to be able to access hard copy post at that address as they often send things that way (but also check e-mail and spam). It is extremely important that you reply, and you'll only have a limited time to do so (often 14 days from the date on their communication).

When you receive the letter post a redacted copy of it in this thread, along with your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you. You'll find lots of example letters you can use in this section of the forum but the reply basically needs to mention:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident and will not do this again
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the railway company’s administrative costs in dealing with the matter

The railway will probably offer you an out of court settlement. Expect to have to pay the cost of the fare for the journey you made at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the invalid ticket you purchased. In addition they will charge an admin fee, typically £150. They will also audit your online ticket purchase history* and if this shows you've purchased other tickets that were not valid (eg railcard discounted tickets when you did not have a valid railcard, or tickets for only part of the journey, or tickets bought after boarding the train you travelled on ) they will probably factor the cost of these journeys into the settlement offer. Depending on how many journeys you've made over the period concerned this could end up being expensive.

Settlements usually have to be paid in full within a few days of them being offered so if money is tight you might want to think about how you will raise the sum required at short notice.

* presumably you can assume includes Oyster card records where they need to check this

 

[traveller7]

Thank you!
Would appreciate advice on points 2,3 and 4 as well!

 

[jfollows]

See https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/privacy-and-cookies/access-your-data#on-this-page-0

Oyster or contactless journey history​

If you are a registered Oyster or contactless payment card customer, you can access your journey/payment history and other personal information by signing into your online account. Oyster card journey history is retained for between 8 and 9 weeks after the card has been used. The journey data in the ticketing system is then disassociated from your card during the ninth week.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you!
Would appreciate advice on points 2,3 and 4 as well!

2. How long are Oyster journey histories stored?

I don't specifically know (but there are Oyster experts on here) - but I think you can assume for the purposes of investigating things like this they can look at records going back for some time - possibly /probably years back

And what will they likely check when investigating—just the 4–5 weeks I stated, or will they review as far back as possible?

You'd assume they would go back for some time - more than 4 - 5 weeks if they can do so - which I suspect they can if they wish to, and at this stage you should probably assume that they will.

3. Can they access Oyster history older than 8 weeks?

See answer to 2. Does this mean that your Oyster history has other suspicious activity on it?
This is why you need to wait to see what they say and ask you when they write to you really.

If so, how might that affect their investigation and decision?

Typically what we see is them asking for a larger sum to settle out of court in order to reclaim as much lost fare income as they believe they are owed

4. Is the burden on me to prove that this hasn’t been happening longer than the 4–5 weeks I admitted to?

Potentially yes. What we see is that people can get asked to explain suspicious ticket buying records that get discovered. But what we also see is that if the railway believes people are being honest and co-operative with them, and can offer plausible explanations as to why such travel they think is suspicious is in fact not suspicious, they can be prepared to accept that. But you should never lie (because if this did ever escalate to court and it can never be 100% guaranteed that it won't) having lied, especially in writing, during the process isn't something it is easy to go back on.

5. I’m extremely anxious about the possibility of prosecution and a criminal record as it would impact my professional life massively.

There are specialist solicitors that get mentioned on the forum who deal in fare evasion - engaging one might cost c£500 or more in legal fees however (on top of any out of court payment settlement achieved). With help from here it is often said that you probably don't need to use one if you want to handle things yourself, or if your own initial efforts do not initially prevent prosecution you could then approach a solicitor. But that can be an option. Depending on your own assessment of the impact on your professional life you might want to weigh that up. We can dig out the names of the firms that have been mentioned by people on here who have used them and found their services effective.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Dec 2025 ==

See https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/privacy-and-cookies/access-your-data#on-this-page-0

does this apply though to authorised access to data for investigating what is classed as criminal activity (ie fare evasion)? Essentially a train company in this case requesting the data from TfL for a period longer ago.

 

[traveller7]

Thank you very much. I will wait for their letter/correspondence and update here for advice on next steps! Thanks

 

[Mattplans]

Generally Southeastern are happy to settle out of court unlike TfL. From previous cases involving SE, if you're forthcoming, apologetic etc, they will be happy to settle out of court.

 

[WesternLancer]

My questions:

1. What should I expect in the initial correspondence from Southeastern?

(Letter of intention to prosecute? Request for my side of the story?)

This one not been answered yet I don't think - basically you will have to wait to get it to be sure, but the standard letter (you should be able to find some SE Trains cases on here where one has been uploaded) is typically a sort of combo of those things - essentially threatens the prospect of prosecution (probably to make people fully understand the seriousness of this and indeed if no response is received it escalates to prosecution pretty much automatically) but also asking for your version of events / or any mitigating information (eg explaining / evidencing you did in fact have a valid ticket or a valid reason for not having one when inspected).

 

[Mattplans]

Looks like SE send penalty fares by email as well now - you can be expecting something like this. Not sure how likely it is that they will actually go on to investigate your oyster history. If they do, it might look more like the second one.

 

[WesternLancer]

Looks like SE send penalty fares by email as well now - you can be expecting something like this. Not sure how likely it is that they will actually go on to investigate your oyster history. If they do, it might look more like the second one.

That looks like a follow up for a Penalty Fare (or unpaid Penalty Fare) that would have been issued on the spot (on train or at a station) but it does not sound like the OP here was issued with a Penalty Fare so my hunch would be the second one (or as you say something like it) is what will probably be sent.

Helpful to see those examples.

 

[Mattplans]

does not sound like the OP here was issued with a Penalty Fare

That’s disappointing however as it really does look like OP self incriminated. I see no reason why this one couldn’t have been solved with a FPN on the start. I wonder how likely it is the TOC will investigate the oyster history?

 

[John R]

That’s disappointing however as it really does look like OP self incriminated. I see no reason why this one couldn’t have been solved with a FPN on the start. I wonder how likely it is the TOC will investigate the oyster history?

Penalty Fares are not issued where fraudulent behaviour is suspected. So good reason why one was not issued, and rightly so, as it does enable investigation of the passenger’s travel history to identify repeat occurrences, and thus recover lost revenue.

 

[traveller7]

Hi again members. Its approaching 9 weeks and I haven’t received any letter yet. Is anyone aware of delays nowadays and is sitting tight the best course of action now? I am 95% I gave the right address but I might have been very panicked. Afraid everything happens at the backend and one day I discover a charge on DBS. If the letter from them is inevitable, what is the risk of a humble email asking on status and is it worth? Could they be taking time to dive deeper in the investigations?

 

[z444z]

Hi again members. Its approaching 9 weeks and I haven’t received any letter yet. Is anyone aware of delays nowadays and is sitting tight the best course of action now? I am 95% I gave the right address but I might have been very panicked. Afraid everything happens at the backend and one day I discover a charge on DBS. If the letter from them is inevitable, what is the risk of a humble email asking on status and is it worth? Could they be taking time to dive deeper in the investigations?

The last few Southeastern cases we’ve seen, letters have been received within two weeks. It isn’t usually advisable but especially if you’re only 95% sure the address given was correct, this could be a case where contacting them is the best course of action. Wait to see what more people think before doing anything though.

 

[traveller7]

Thank you, will wait on other members advice too.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you, will wait on other members advice too.

On this maybe you could wait a bit longer (but we have seen other SE Trains cases on hold for quite long periods I think - one even where the passenger did ask and received an e-mail reply saying it was on hold and to bear with them IIRC)

If you did wish to write to them soonish or after a bit I would keep it really to the point and not get into anything about the specifics of what you did etc / excuses / apologies. Just focus on when you might expect to hear from them

To check:

a) are you confident it was SE Trains staff?
b) Were you given any paperwork by the person who stopped you? eg with train company details and a ref number etc
c) do you need an address to send this to? (don't bother contacting customer services about it)

letter or e-mail you could send them for example
-----------------------------------------

Dear Sir / Madam

Your Ref: Insert any refs from paperwork you were given

On x date at y location I was questioned by a member of railway staff about the validity of my train ticket and was told I should expect to hear from SE Trains in due course.

I have not yet received any correspondence about this and I was wondering when I can expect to hear further.

My name is:

My date of birth is:

My correct postal address is:

My e-mail address is:

Yours faithfully

 

[traveller7]

Their response:

I apologise that we are taking longer than we had hoped to respond. We are undergoing some process changes and need to ensure that we align your case fully with these changes. This is taking longer than anticipated.

Your case is currently under review and investigation by the Prosecutions Team, we will contact you in due course regarding your case.

Many thanks and kind regards

Any clues what’s actually happening?

 

[WesternLancer]

Their response:

I apologise that we are taking longer than we had hoped to respond. We are undergoing some process changes and need to ensure that we align your case fully with these changes. This is taking longer than anticipated.

Your case is currently under review and investigation by the Prosecutions Team, we will contact you in due course regarding your case.

Many thanks and kind regards

Any clues what’s actually happening?

We’ve seen that message given before. Others may be able to explain what’s going on.

 

[Mattplans]

I believe we concluded it was to do with the use of lay prosecutors which affected some TOCs for a while; the use of non-authorised persons acting in court for train companies when pursuing prosecutions.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy38zmvk04o may interest you

This generally works in your favour, the more time they waste the better. The company has 6 months to bring charges against you for any alleged evasion. If they want to exhaust that, it's their perogative.

I'm not entirely convinced that any 'investigation' into you will bear any fruit to be honest... we haven't seen any cases yet of TOCs using Oyster card history to inform their investigation or use it to bring charges alleging incomplete journies on other dates. However this doesn't mean the company cannot bring prosecution against you for the actual offence you were reported for or use it to leverage a ooc settlement out of you (preferred outcome) We'll see what happens though...

 

[AlterEgo]

The Brohiri case was concluded in GTR's favour.

Expect fare evasion cases to start moving forward again soon

 

[traveller7]

Hi all, I posted here last year. In short: I was caught by a Southeastern inspector in November 2025 travelling Erith to Plumstead on a Friday without a valid ticket. I panicked, admitted I’d been doing this for around 4-5 weeks while travelling Erith to Canary Wharf for work, and showed my Oyster card. An MG11 was completed. I have no previous warnings, fines or prosecutions, and I’ve tapped in correctly on every journey since.

In end of Sep 2026 I received Southeastern’s standard letter inviting my comments, nearly 10.5 months after the incident.

My questions:
1. How should I respond and what should I admit? I already told the inspector 4-5 weeks or maybe give them a holistic “I accept” and let them decide if they want me to pay for that one ticket or the 4-5 weeks or more?

2. Am I in the clear from criminal prosecution, or is this still a real possibility? Is a settlement (repaying the fares plus costs) the likely outcome, or could there be something else? Also is it possible they have already started proceedings within 6 month period (i have not received any court orders etc)

3. What kind of evidence can they still obtain? My journeys were on oyster card.

4. I am travelling overseas for 3 months and wouldn’t have an address. What should I do? Do a re routing etc or respond with an email and tell them that I am not in Uk for 3 months and request all correspondence be on email?

Thanks in advance.

Link to previous thread:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/southeastern-mg11-advice-and-help.296017/

 

[jfollows]

You can not be prosecuted for a summary-only offence unless the details of the offence and the charge are brought to the court within six months of the date of the alleged offence.

Magistrates’ Courts Act 1980

An Act to consolidate certain enactments relating to the jurisdiction of, and the practice and procedure before, magistrates’ courts and the functions of justices’ clerks, and to matters connected therewith, with amendments to give effect to recommendations of the Law Commission.

www.legislation.gov.uk

127Limitation of time.​

(1)Except as otherwise expressly provided by any enactment and subject to subsection (2) below, a magistrates’ court shall not try an information or hear a complaint unless the information was laid, or the complaint made, within 6 months from the time when the offence was committed, or the matter of complaint arose.

They want you to pay them money in settlement, but they no longer have the threat of a criminal prosecution to hold over your head as an alternative. I’d suggest ignoring them but see what others advise also. They have a route to a civil prosecution if they want to follow it, but currently I don’t think this company does this - I can be corrected.

 

[traveller7]

Thank you! Thats helpful and relieving!

- Are they able to convert it to something bigger (eg fraud act) that doesn’t obey the 6 month limit? For eg. I might have startled and said that I did this for 3-4 weeks previously, could this be converted to a fraud act case?

- if I do end up responding, should I just admit that one particular instance and dont mention the others (that I mentioned in witness statement) or something else? What should the response say?

 

[jfollows]

Fraud requires proof of intent, which I think they’re unlikely to be able to do.
My advice is simply not to reply at all.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you! Thats helpful and relieving!

- Are they able to convert it to something bigger (eg fraud act) that doesn’t obey the 6 month limit? For eg. I might have startled and said that I did this for 3-4 weeks previously, could this be converted to a fraud act case?

- if I do end up responding, should I just admit that one particular instance and dont mention the others (that I mentioned in witness statement) or something else? What should the response say?

You might want to look over this recent thread to see the posts made - it seems that SE Trains are seeking to clear a backlog of old cases that they have left go beyond the 6 month period in which they can bring a criminal prosecution in the magistrates court as mentioned above.

Southeastern Penalty Letter Help

Hi all Over 11 months ago I was stopped at a London station by a ticket inspector when trying to tap through. I had bought a ticket on board the train at a nearer station than I boarded. I received the MG11 and awaited the letter through the door. It arrived last week after 11 months. Not...

www.railforums.co.uk

ref these two questions

3. What kind of evidence can they still obtain? My journeys were on oyster card.

I would suspect that if they were minded to do so they could probably get access to info on Oyster card use going back for some years (not to worry you unduly but just so you know - I'll stand corrected if others think this is wrong)

4. I am travelling overseas for 3 months and wouldn’t have an address. What should I do? Do a re routing etc or respond with an email and tell them that I am not in Uk for 3 months and request all correspondence be on email?

No one here can guarantee they wont keep writing to you, or that they won't send it to magistrates court, even if they are not supposed to, as part of their normal 'conveyor belt' process with un-responded to letters about fare evasion, nor can anyone be certain that the magistrates court would even notice they weren't supposed to due to the time period that has elapsed, so might just allow a prosecution to happen anyway (unless anyone here knows there are robust processes in the court to prevent this happening?).

Plus there is the possibility that they could instead use the civil court to seek to obtain the unpaid fare(s) as a debt - some train companies certainly do this but the main one we have seen on here so far is GWR

A court would not contact you by e-mail if it escalated to that.

So for all these reasons it's important in my view that you make arrangements for your post if you are abroad for 3 months
- That would either be a trusted person who could regularly go to your address and check your post, open it, scan and e-mail anything to you as necessary so you can deal with it
- And / or set up a Royal Mail redirection to a trusted address (eg family) - which is best to be in the UK not abroad, so that it can be monitored for you and you be alerted.
Bear in mind you need to set up a Royal Mail redirection a little time ahead of you needing it to start - see the Royal Mail website for details, and there is a fee.

Then depending on what you receive you can head here for advice on what to do if you receive anything.

For context Erith to Plumstead is a £5 fare - so that's what they will claim you owe (tho if they establish multiple occasions that will add up), and they will probably want some sort of admin fee off you - although their leverage for all this is significantly reduced given they should not be able to prosecute you for a criminal offence.

 

[traveller7]

If I decide to respond, what should my response be? Should I accept the one instance with a reason and without mentioning potential other instances.

What are the chances they try this (or these type of cases) under fraud act?

 

[AlterEgo]

What are the chances they try this (or these type of cases) under fraud act?

Basically none.

 

[WesternLancer]

If I decide to respond, what should my response be? Should I accept the one instance with a reason and without mentioning potential other instances.

I suppose you could say that you considered the matter closed given the time that has elapsed since the incident (which might serve as a hint that you know they can't prosecute you for fare evasion but I suspect it's best not to provoke them) but then
Apologise for what happened (don't bother getting in to why) and say that after you were spoke to you have always bought correct tickets (if that is true)
Offer to pay them the fare owed (without mentioning other instances)

But the risks to you of this are:
- they add on the admin fee we typically see which may be in region of £100 and insist that they want that
- they check your oyster account for suspicious activity have at the time and find the 4 to 5 weeks repeat behaviour you mentioned (think you indicated it might be once per week for 5 weeks - so £10 a day for each day if both ways out and back

so it goes up from maybe c£5 just for the ticket owed that day to maybe £155 for other days and the admin

But you may feel that bringing closure and ending the matter with them now has wider benefits

If you do decide to write to them it might help you to post a draft of what you want to say here for checking before you reply

So hope this helps you weigh up your choices

What are the chances they try this (or these type of cases) under fraud act?

see post #15 in the thread I linked for a view from a very experienced forum member on that

 

[traveller7]

Thank you for advice, i am torn between replying and not, a few more of my concerns if they help in more relevant advice:

- I am on a visa and any prosecution or initiated prosecution can impact my immigration and naturalisation etc.

- I am worried that they might explore previous 3-4 weeks or 2 years+ journeys and potentially find something, could they try it under fraud act? Apologies for being paranoid, worried that not replying can result into them going deeper or receiving surprise court order.

- I emailed them before on the next steps and they told to wait.

 

[30907]

Thank you for advice, i am torn between replying and not, a few more of my concerns if they help in more relevant advice:

- I am on a visa and any prosecution or initiated prosecution can impact my immigration and naturalisation etc.

We can't advise on such issues, sorry

- I am worried that they might explore previous 3-4 weeks or 2 years+ journeys and potentially find something, could they try it under fraud act? Apologies for being paranoid, worried that not replying can result into them going deeper or receiving surprise court order.

Fraud Act prosecutions for straightforward fare evasion are vanishingly rare, even for repeated offences.