• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Southeastern Highspeed preview extended to weekends

Status
Not open for further replies.

Failed Unit

Established Member
Joined
26 Jan 2009
Messages
9,761
Location
Central Belt
That's irrelevant because:
a) The UK speed record on rail is 208mph (achieved on 30 July 2003 by a E*);
b) An APT managed 162.2mph during tests on classic rails 30 years ago;
b) 395s do up to 140mph in service (unlike HSTs or even the technically 140mph-capable 91s/390s) and unless I'm mistaken would have been driven at the usual 10(max.)% overspeed during testing anyway.

:p

Didn't the 91's and mk4's manage 162mph a few years back under GNER. 91130 I understand. The mk4 set was shorterned and the whole run was aimed at breaking what was then the UK speed record. The record was broken twice in that day between Darlington and York and Grantham and Peterborough.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Edvid

Established Member
Joined
7 Feb 2008
Messages
2,490
I guess you've just seen dk1's post. It seems that both 91s and 370s have done ~162mph.
 

Mintona

Established Member
Joined
8 Jan 2006
Messages
3,592
Location
South West
A 395 will go much faster than its "top" speed. I think it will reach at least 180mph like the Eurostars, or certainly could with a few different mechanical parts.
 

A60K

Member
Joined
26 Jun 2008
Messages
1,030
Location
Kilburn
A 395 will go much faster than its "top" speed. I think it will reach at least 180mph like the Eurostars, or certainly could with a few different mechanical parts.

Erm... I think most things will go a bit faster if you change some parts, but I doubt you would get a 395 near 180mph without completely replacing the electrical and drive equipment, new bogies etc!
 

asylumxl

Established Member
Joined
12 Feb 2009
Messages
4,260
Location
Hiding in your shadow
Erm... I think most things will go a bit faster if you change some parts, but I doubt you would get a 395 near 180mph without completely replacing the electrical and drive equipment, new bogies etc!

I disagree. The 395s have very short gearing to allow for quick point to point times. With longer gearing I don't see why it wouldn't be capable of more.
 

90019

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2008
Messages
6,890
Location
Featherstone, West Yorkshire
Didn't the 91's and mk4's manage 162mph a few years back under GNER. 91130 I understand. The mk4 set was shorterned

91110.
With five Mk4s, IIRC.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
So? THe HSTs record is 147mph so is that the fastest train in the UK?

Not including HS1 and the 373s and 395s; 91110 reached 162.8mph.
 
Last edited:

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
30,877
Location
UK
I accept the new trains seem to look nice.

They have a shorter, more direct, route and new tracks/stations.

The staff seem happy (from what I've read; not tried yet).

The passengers seem happy, although it's a novelty right now - not a monthly/annual cost.

But the speed really isn't all that special is it?! Let's build more high-speed lines (if only to finally stop all the problems we get when the wires come down on the ECML) and make 140mph seem like 'entry level'. :)
 

Mojo

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
7 Aug 2005
Messages
21,175
Location
0035
Staff travel facilities to be permitted on Southeastern Highspeed!

Here is an update from ATOC: http://www.atoc.org/rst/_download/special_offer/Web_HS1_121009.pdf

When the new Highspeed services commence formally on 13 December 2009, staff
travel facilities will be accepted on them except at peak times, specifically as
follows...

Additionally, staff travel facilities will be accepted on the Preview Highspeed
services with effect from Saturday, 17 October 2009, except...

See link for full details.
 

Mintona

Established Member
Joined
8 Jan 2006
Messages
3,592
Location
South West
But the speed really isn't all that special is it?! Let's build more high-speed lines (if only to finally stop all the problems we get when the wires come down on the ECML) and make 140mph seem like 'entry level'. :)

Maybe the speed isn't all that special. but the good people of Ashford, Dover and Ramsgate have had journey times absolutely slashed to London. Which is why it is proving so popular.

And the passengers are very happy now, a lot are upgrading season tickets to + high speed every week! Long may it last.
 

Failed Unit

Established Member
Joined
26 Jan 2009
Messages
9,761
Location
Central Belt
Maybe the speed isn't all that special. but the good people of Ashford, Dover and Ramsgate have had journey times absolutely slashed to London. Which is why it is proving so popular.

And the passengers are very happy now, a lot are upgrading season tickets to + high speed every week! Long may it last.

Dude, that is not strickly true some people are now going to experience longer journeys (less frequent as well).

Canterbury to London can now be done in 1:27 on the classic route this will be increased to about 1:45 from December. Yes it is true that it will be about 1 hour on the High Speed route but Charing Cross is a lot more central to many areas of the city than St Pancras. People that prefer to use Charing Cross, Waterloo East, Victoria etc will not be please that there journey will increase or the need to now use a travel card as well!

Don't get me wrong I am from North of London and come into Kings Cross, my journey to Kent is now nearly 90 minutes quick, we just need to remember that some people are not much better off. Faversham for example the time saving compared to the existing Victoria service is very small!
 

Southern

Member
Joined
19 Jun 2005
Messages
527
Location
Folkestone, Kent
Been using these train recently to get to/from college, am quite impressed. Not so much yesterday, when travelling to St Pancras, 395006 had to be bought out of the yard because the train expected to work the 1220 failed. Finally pulled out of Ashford around 36 minutes late.
 

Mintona

Established Member
Joined
8 Jan 2006
Messages
3,592
Location
South West
It really isn't. 377s were built in Derby. 395s were built in Japan. They are entirely different trains.
 

dk1

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Oct 2009
Messages
19,846
Location
East Anglia
Gave it a go yesterday & very impressed. Not too many passengers using the weekend trains especially Ebbsfleet terminators but several on the Ashfords. Staff were excellent as was cleanliness of the trains. I know its only a quick hop but would be good to see the occasional at-seat trolley. I do like that on a trip if only for a cuppa (or beer) & this being a premier service it does deserve it & i hope SE at least gives it a trial.
 

MCR247

Established Member
Joined
7 Nov 2008
Messages
10,291
But would it be worthwhile for them? I mean, will many people use it off-peak? If so probably on 50-70% would actually use it, and when its busiest (after dec?) then wont they have mostly just finished work, and probably not buy anything? Also would they need extra staff
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
30,877
Location
UK
Right, I've made a last minute decision to try out the 395 tomorrow, and make a day out at Leeds Castle at the same time.

Any idea on what tickets I need to get and the supplements I need?

I have a Z1-6 Gold Card, so normally I'd be getting a Z6 boundary ticket to Bearsted, except I want to go via Ashford and upgrade to HS1. That should keep the ticket office busy.

To confuse matters further, I'll be going with the wife - so she'll need a ticket from Hatfield to Bearsted, via Ashford and HS1!

I see it mentioned that you can pay a supplement on the train, so does that mean I can simply get a return to Ashford, and a separate return to Bearsted, then pay on the train the extra supplement for not having gone via Victoria? Or could I simply ask for Bearsted via HS1, on account of it being a quicker route even if I am going back on myself?
 

asylumxl

Established Member
Joined
12 Feb 2009
Messages
4,260
Location
Hiding in your shadow
You should be able to ask for a return "plus high speed" as it says on the ticket. I know SET machines in St Pancras can issue such tickets.

As Ashford is a routing point, you should be able to buy a supplement onboard for the high speed service, but check before going through the barriers.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
30,877
Location
UK
The trip was cancelled after the wife noticed the wonderful 2for1 offer for Leeds Castle (normally £16.50 each) isn't valid at weekends. Great 2 for 1 offers for leisure travellers, yeah right!!

On top of the train fare, paying 'double' to get in means we'll go another weekend and find somewhere else to go instead.

Thanks for the help though; may venture out next weekend instead.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
30,877
Location
UK
As the wife is away this weekend, I decided to go and preview the 395s on my own.

At Hatfield, I asked for a ticket extension from Boundary Zone 6 to Ashford International and an HS1 supplement. She could do the first ticket, with Gold Card discount, but couldn't find the supplement. I said not to worry, I'd get it at St Pancras.

Got 1353 train to King's Cross, walked over to St Pancras at 1420 and got my supplement for £4.90 (no discount available).

Boarded 1438 train and had a walk around. A very impressive train, although it was rather annoying to be told the stopping pattern every minute! Very professional welcome message from the train manager, even introducing the name of the driver. Oddly, there was no mention of the passenger safety notices. Also, why don't we have a standard 'tone' before announcements here? The one in use is the same I've heard in Sweden - so it must be a default setting!

The train is very smooth, but not that well sound proofed so in the tunnels it's very noisy. The lighting is very well diffused and the passengers seem nice and relaxed, as if it's some sort of private club!

My only problem came when I presented my interesting ticket combination; only to be told that you can't use ticket extensions. She said they operated the same policy as Heathrow Express (she would later say they'd only just got staff privileges) and I had to buy a ticket that started at St Pancras - but I could get the Gold Card discount.

This means I have to pay the supplement (which I hope for their sake is scrapped in the coming years) AND pay again for part of a route that I've already got a ticket for.

The question is why has Southeastern decided to operate like this? I'm sorry, but impressed as I am, the train isn't that stunning. It isn't THAT fast and you get the same 'new train' feel on any other new train. Imagine if London Overground had upped its fares and introduced a supplement for the 378s!

After everything was calculated, my excess was only £1.90 anyway! I paid cash, and she sympathised and agreed with me that when it's a train full of people that aren't just out to preview the train for leisure (who may well have had a reduction of other services), she's likely to get more grief. We had a bit more banter and she carried on.

At Ebbsfleet, a family got on and the father was keen to make sure the very small children didn't put their shoes on the seats and kept the table clean - as they were eating sweets and fruit. Certainly proves the point that if you keep things looking clean, some people will make an effort to keep it that way.

A few minutes later, the TM came back and asked if she'd left her keys with me. I said she'd only put down her credit card machine and she concluded she'd probably left them in the cab. She then walked off and left her ticket machine (which she came back for soon after!). Again, everyone laughed and saw the funny side. I can see why staff enjoy working these trains - at least for now!

When we arrived at Ashford, I got off and then realised it was the same train going back. So I never left the train!! A guy came on to clean up, and I walked down the other end to be near the gateline at St Pancras. Now for some reason, the train left a minute late (and I later found that we were 2 minutes down most of the way back). Not sure why, but no matter. Of course, thanks to padding, the train arrived 1 minute early!

I popped into the toilet soon after the train left Ashford and found nobody had cleaned in there, and it was quite messy with toilet paper all over the floor. A bit of a disappointment to an otherwise interesting trip - that was complete in little over an hour. Got back to get the 1606 train home. So, I had gone from Hatfield to Ashford International AND back in just over 2.5 hours!

So, while the train may not be going that amazingly fast (not so to justify the extra cost), the direct route really does make Kent incredibly accessible. The staff also seem (as confirmed before here) to be very happy and friendly - and extremely professional. Long may it continue to be the case.

Finally, here's how my ticketing ended up!!:
395PREVIEW.jpg
(One thing, shouldn't my ticket extension (top two) have said NOT HS1 to make things clearer?)
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top