Southeastern High Speed Qualified Drivers (18/10/2021)

[LeGrimpeur]

High Speed Driver | 1 November, 2021 | Jobs and careers with Southeastern

Jobs and careers with Southeastern - Train drivers are at the heart of our business, getting our passengers to where they need to be, on time and safely. Driving a train carries great responsibility but with that comes pride and achievement, knowing that an invaluable service has been delivered...

jobs.southeasternrailway.co.uk

 

[43066]

High Speed Driver | 1 November, 2021 | Jobs and careers with Southeastern

Jobs and careers with Southeastern - Train drivers are at the heart of our business, getting our passengers to where they need to be, on time and safely. Driving a train carries great responsibility but with that comes pride and achievement, knowing that an invaluable service has been delivered...

jobs.southeasternrailway.co.uk

Again!?

SE seem to try to recruit qualifieds to the high speed depots more than they recruit trainees for the metro network!

 

[Horizon22]

Again!?

SE seem to try to recruit qualifieds to the high speed depots more than they recruit trainees for the metro network!

Because its basically metro work. The "High Speed" bit is quite a small section of course. Not so bad if you're going via Ashford, but if you're on a Medway rounder, its essentially DOO metro work for a long period.

 

[TheEdge]

Again!?

SE seem to try to recruit qualifieds to the high speed depots more than they recruit trainees for the metro network!

I also note you must live within 40 minutes of the depot to be considered. I understand that restriction for trainees but for qualified drivers surely most of the interest will come from people wanting to relocate. How many qualified drivers live within 40 minutes of Ramsgate who are not already driving for SE?

 

[Horizon22]

I also note you must live within 40 minutes of the depot to be considered. I understand that restriction for trainees but for qualified drivers surely most of the interest will come from people wanting to relocate. How many qualified drivers live within 40 minutes of Ramsgate who are not already driving for SE?

Yeah that's very odd, maybe could do with clarity in the advert. I would go with zero considering they're the only operator in the area!

 

[Class2ldn]

Not many people will want to relocate just to work the high speed for SE, its not as great as it seems from what I've seen so not surprised they can't get the drivers from within.

 

[ComUtoR]

Again!?

Maybe it's because they have a new Ops Manager...

 

[Efini92]

I believe they are very picky about taking metro drivers for the high speed stuff.

 

[Shoeburysam]

I also note you must live within 40 minutes of the depot to be considered. I understand that restriction for trainees but for qualified drivers surely most of the interest will come from people wanting to relocate. How many qualified drivers live within 40 minutes of Ramsgate who are not already driving for SE?

I've recently applied for this as I am looking to relocate back home to Ramsgate. Unfortunately I currently live in Southend.
I mentioned my personal circumstances in the application so hopefully won't get overlooked. As I'd need to move once I have a start date.

 

[Grvrdvicdr]

I believe they are very picky about taking metro drivers for the high speed stuff.

Not at all

 

[rd749249]

Is the salary a premium to metro routes and is there any details on any latest pay deal? I understand there's been no pay talks since 2019 but that may have changed given recent events.

 

[baz962]

Is the salary a premium to metro routes and is there any details on any latest pay deal? I understand there's been no pay talks since 2019 but that may have changed given recent events.

I believe it's around 3000 more than a southeastern metro driver. Still around 9k less than Overground and you would get more at Southern and MTR.

 

[43066]

I’m Because its basically metro work. The "High Speed" bit is quite a small section of course. Not so bad if you're going via Ashford, but if you're on a Medway rounder, its essentially DOO metro work for a long period.

Indeed it is. I suspect that’s something many don’t realise until they get to the interview stage, as you might quite reasonably assume trains running on HS1 would be at least equivalent to SE’s classic mainline routes.

I also note you must live within 40 minutes of the depot to be considered. I understand that restriction for trainees but for qualified drivers surely most of the interest will come from people wanting to relocate. How many qualified drivers live within 40 minutes of Ramsgate who are not already driving for SE?

Not many at all I agree (believe it or not I know of a handful who live in that part of the world, ironically who commute on HS1!). Possibly a few freight drivers based at Hoo Junction and Mountfield Sidings? A small pool to draw from for sure.

Completely agree it’s odd they won’t accept relocations as surely that would be a key attraction to those looking to relocate to the Kent coast who might be prepared to overlook the nature of the work. Fingers crossed they’re sensible and @Shoeburysam gets a look in.

Maybe it's because they have a new Ops Manager...

I believe they are very picky about taking metro drivers for the high speed stuff.

Surprising they don’t offer this to metro drivers. They do DOO work already (more intense than HS) and there are always quite a few looking to transfer down towards the coast. Perhaps it’s to avoid making the shortage of metro drivers worse!? Albeit usually they won’t release drivers until they can both be accommodated at the new depot and released by the old.

 

[Horizon22]

Indeed it is. I suspect that’s something many don’t realise until they get to the interview stage, as you might quite reasonably assume trains running on HS1 would be at least equivalent to SE’s classic mainline routes.

Surprising they don’t offer this to metro drivers. They do DOO work already (more intense than HS) and there are always quite a few looking to transfer down towards the coast. Perhaps it’s to avoid making the shortage of metro drivers worse!? Albeit usually they won’t release drivers until they can both be accommodated at the new depot and released by the old.

Quite possibly some don't realise, but any reasonably clued up driver will probably be able to do a bit of research on what HS work is like - such as asking on this forum!

Yes it might cause a shortage, but Southeastern Metro depots are probably bottom of the rung for the area, and there's a never-ending supply of internal staff from more junior roles (dispatchers, team leaders etc.) going for drivers and of course if its ever advertised externally hundreds to sift through there! But yes, inevitably it might well make an immediate shortage worse.

 

[Shoeburysam]

Indeed it is. I suspect that’s something many don’t realise until they get to the interview stage, as you might quite reasonably assume trains running on HS1 would be at least equivalent to SE’s classic mainline routes.



Not many at all I agree (believe it or not I know of a handful who live in that part of the world, ironically who commute on HS1!). Possibly a few freight drivers based at Hoo Junction and Mountfield Sidings? A small pool to draw from for sure.

Completely agree it’s odd they won’t accept relocations as surely that would be a key attraction to those looking to relocate to the Kent coast who might be prepared to overlook the nature of the work. Fingers crossed they’re sensible and @Shoeburysam gets a look in.





Surprising they don’t offer this to metro drivers. They do DOO work already (more intense than HS) and there are always quite a few looking to transfer down towards the coast. Perhaps it’s to avoid making the shortage of metro drivers worse!? Albeit usually they won’t release drivers until they can both be accommodated at the new depot and released by the old.

I probably should of put a family members address down.

 

[notadriver]

I probably should of put a family members address down.

Have you worked at Ramsgate before ? Seems to be a lot of negativity about the HS role - I think it’s unfounded. PM me if you want further info.

 

[Tibbins]

Just a random question here! How come high speed drivers get paid more then your average train driver? Is it danger money!

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

Probably because they have to know no just standard UK Mainline rules and signalling but the TVM430 and KVB signalling systems, and all the associated stuff. Better skilled innit

 

[ComUtoR]

Probably because they have to know no just standard UK Mainline rules and signalling but the TVM430 and KVB signalling systems, and all the associated stuff. Better skilled innit

This isn't true and the relative skill level tends to lean in the other direction.

There are historical reasons why HS1 get paid extra.

 

[notadriver]

There is a lot of resentment from other Southeastern drivers particularly metro based ones towards the high speed role.

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

This isn't true and the relative skill level tends to lean in the other direction.

There are historical reasons why HS1 get paid extra.

Such as? It wasn't meant as a dig to anyone not HS, but surely having skills of High Speed Signalling systems means more skills when compared with a normal mainline driver? It almost certainly does. These SE HS drivers have normal rules and more rules on top. (I'm not connected to SE or HS1 in any way fyi)

 

[ComUtoR]

Such as?

The extra payment never existed when they first recruited for HS1. Suffice to say very few people applied. (and still don't) The additional payment was effectively a bribe to get Mainline Drivers to apply. There aren't any Metro based depots for HS1 and the one they were considering would have meant emptying out Metro depots. So they fudged the recruitment and added a bribe.

Money wise, it isn't that much of a jump and kinda why they struggle to recruit. For a Metro Driver to lose their London weighting and then gain the HS1 bonus it isn't worth the move.

It wasn't meant as a dig to anyone not HS,

I didn't think it was, non issue tbh.

but surely having skills of High Speed Signalling systems means more skills when compared with a normal mainline driver?

It's easier to drive on HS1 than under regular signalling. There are no signals and a wrong route is automatically down to the Signaller. I have been told by the High speed folks its the easiest driving you'll ever do. Single traction, one main route, less intensity, fewer signals, OBS. Its a breeze by comparison. One of the reasons Mainline Drivers give for not applying is because its boring and tedious work.

It almost certainly does. These SE HS drivers have normal rules and more rules on top. (I'm not connected to SE or HS1 in any way fyi)

I don't wish to denigrate HS1 Drivers and they do have additional rules etc. We, as Drivers, all have different hills to climb in our roles. It would be better to say that the job is 'different' rather than higher skilled. I don't think many of us see driving as hierarchical in any way. Dealing with 1k passengers is probably just as hard as dealing with a few metric ton of aggregate. Watching block markers whizz past your train is no doubt as scary as watching a single yellow creep slowly past your window.

 

[43066]

Just a random question here! How come high speed drivers get paid more then your average train driver? Is it danger money!

I’d be concerned if any driver was being paid “danger money” . They’re paid less than average for work they do compared to many other TOCs. Considerably less than Southern and Thameslink, for example.

There is a lot of resentment from other Southeastern drivers particularly metro based ones towards the high speed role.

I’m not so sure about that as SE’s metro drivers are based a long way from High Speed depots, so the job wouldn’t be relevant to them. They could transfer to a mainline depot and then apply for HS if they really wanted to do it.

These adverts keep appearing, which shows SE apparently can’t persuade their own classic drivers already at those depots to move across, even for extra pay. The simple reason for this is that most don’t want to do DOO work for the uplift SE are offering.

I probably should of put a family members address down.

Perhaps contact them to say that, if you get the job, you would live with a family member while buying a property locally. That should deal with any concerns about fatigue.

 

[notadriver]

By that definition Eurostar is also not a higher skilled role ? Because driving a train at 180+ mph is no different than trundling around 30-40 mph on suburban routes ?

 

[ComUtoR]

By that definition Eurostar is also not a higher skilled role ? Because driving a train at 180+ mph is no different than trundling around 30-40 mph on suburban routes ?

Of course its 'different' but the skills are pretty much the same. If your in a Ferrari driving round Silverstone you're still using the same basic skills if you were driving a Mini. Sure the Ferrari is faster but its also got traction control, a lower chassis, ceramic brakes, bucket seats etc etc. The entire car is designed to help you drive it on the edge. Take a Mini round and try and push it your likely to smash it into a wall. You are also more likely to come out sweating buckets because of the concentration level required without the numerous driver aids.

Also compare driving a Mini round central London all day, dealing with congestion, pedestrians and other traffic and then drive a Ferrari on its own dedicated race track. In both cases you are still using the same skills to drive a car.

Years ago I was stunned to discover that many F1 Drivers couldn't drive a road car; just as I was surprised to discover you can drive the Eurostar and indeed the Javelin without looking out the front window !

Driving with Cab Signalling

I had a go on a driving simulator for a metro line yesterday. The line concerned has cab signalling, with no line-side signals or speed signs. Your maximum permitted speed is shown on the speedo, and regularly changes. In order to keep within acceptable speeds, I found that I was having to...

www.railforums.co.uk

To be honest unless there is something wrong it’s little different to normal driving. I don’t look at the speedometer anymore than I would do when driving under line side signals. In fact I’m looking out the window a bit more to adjust power for the severe gradient changes on HS1

Cruising Along Through the Channel Tunnel:Mind the Fish (Published 1995)

You're sure it won't be an ordinary three-hour run through the Channel Tunnel to London when at 8:29 Robin Hicks, chief driver of Eurostar 9011, shuts the blind on the front window and vaunts, "We could carry on all day like this!".The Britis

www.nytimes.com

You're sure it won't be an ordinary three-hour run through the Channel Tunnel to London when at 8:29 Robin Hicks, chief driver of Eurostar 9011, shuts the blind on the front window and vaunts, "We could carry on all day like this!"

The British crew laughs, but a second later the blind's up again and we're back to the serious business of flying along at 300 kilometers per hour (186 miles per hour) through heavy fog 25 minutes north of Paris. You have no idea yet that there'll be fish to look for in the tunnel.

I can't find the video or a Eurostar driving with the blinds down buts its around somewhere on the internet.

 

[43066]

By that definition Eurostar is also not a higher skilled role ? Because driving a train at 180+ mph is no different than trundling around 30-40 mph on suburban routes ?

I’m not sure I’d agree driving Eurostars on a lightly trafficked dedicated high speed line, with incab signalling, is necessarily going to be higher skilled than driving freight trains, driving intercity trains on the classic network, or intensive DOO metro work into London terminals. When fully open Crossrail will also have three signalling systems to contend with, for example (ETCS, AWS/TPWS, CBTC).

It’s unhelpful to get into a “my job is better/higher skilled than your job” type argument.

 

[Shoeburysam]

I’d be concerned if any driver was being paid “danger money” . They’re paid less than average for work they do compared to many other TOCs. Considerably less than Southern and Thameslink, for example.



I’m not so sure about that as SE’s metro drivers are based a long way from High Speed depots, so the job wouldn’t be relevant to them. They could transfer to a mainline depot and then apply for HS if they really wanted to do it.

These adverts keep appearing, which shows SE apparently can’t persuade their own classic drivers already at those depots to move across, even for extra pay. The simple reason for this is that most don’t want to do DOO work for the uplift SE are offering.




Perhaps contact them to say that, if you get the job, you would live with a family member while buying a property locally. That should deal with any concerns about fatigue.

Oh I mentioned it in the application. It's more I want to move back home to Ramsgate and SE are the local TOC. I can't move home without a job. I work DOO anyway so that's not a concern to me.

 

[ComUtoR]

There is a lot of resentment from other Southeastern drivers particularly metro based ones towards the high speed role.

There really isn't.

 

[Horizon22]

Whilst this discussion about High Speed signalling & Eurostar is interesting and somewhat helpful, can I ask we please don't drift off topic too much and keep the discussion to the vacancy as listed.