John Palmer
Member
- Joined
- 23 Oct 2015
- Messages
- 399
I fear that my amendments to your proposed appeal may be a bit clumsy, due to the convolutions of the changes made to the 2018 Penalty Fares Regulations by the 2022 Amendment Regulations, but for what it is worth, here is how I would set out the basis of the appeal I understand @furlong to have in mind:
"Dear members of the panel,
Please find below the reasons for the appeal.
Under Regulation 16(1)(a) of the Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018:
The penalty fare was not charged in accordance with the requirements of the regulations for the following reasons:
Regulation 5A of the Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018 (as inserted by Regulation 4(3) of the Railways (Penalty Fares) (Amendment) Regulations 2022) provides that:
“In respect of England, the penalty fare charged under paragraph (1) (of Regulation 5 of the 2018 Regulations) to a person travelling by or present on a train authorises a person to travel to—
(a)a station in England at which the train is due to make a scheduled call that they may specify, if the collector considers that this is reasonable in all the circumstances; or
(b)otherwise, the next station at which the train is due to make a scheduled call.”
The penalty fare notice issued to my daughter shows that it was issued in terms authorising travel to from Newington to Selhurst and that the fare charged was £100 plus the full single fare for a child from Newington to Selhurst. The train on which my daughter was travelling when the penalty fare was issued to her was not one that was scheduled to call at Selhurst. Accordingly the penalty fare was not charged in accordance with the requirements of the Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018 because:
a) it authorised travel to a station at which the train was not due to make a scheduled call; and/or
b) the fare charged exceeded the amount permitted to be charged under those Regulations because it was £100 plus the full single fare for a child for a journey from Newington to Selhurst, being a fare greater than £100 plus the full single fare for a child from Newington to the final destination at which the train on which she was travelling was scheduled to call (See Regulation 9 of the Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018 as amended by the Railways (Penalty Fares) (Amendment) Regulations 2022).
Under Regulation 16(1)(d) of the Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018:
My 15y/o daughter tried to purchase a ticket using the vending machine but unfortunately, the keyboard was frozen and unable to proceed. She tried several times without avail, she went to the kiosk to find a member of staff but it was closed and no other member of staff was available to help. Once she boarded the train she tried to find a conductor but couldn't find one so she purchased a ticket online as she didn’t want to be traveling without having paid for the journey. It has been suggested that the vending machine was working for other passengers, this was not the case for my daughter and as a consequence had no way of producing a paper ticket. Please note that in the past I too have experienced issues with a vending machine but have then had the option to purchase from a kiosk, this was not the case for my daughter and it feels like she is being penalised for trying to be proactive and not travel without having paid for her journey.
The National Rail Conditions of Travel clearly states the following;
6.1.3 At the station where you start your journey, there is no means of purchasing a Ticket, because - VENDING MACHINE KEYBOARD FROZEN AND KIOSK CLOSED. UNBALE TO PURCHASE A TICKET BEFORE BOARDING THE TRAIN.
6.1.3.1 The Ticket office is closed; or the TICKET OFFICE WAS CLOSED ON THE 21ST MARCH 2023. NO MEMBER OF STAFF AVAILABLE TO HELP.
6.1.3.2 A self service ticket machine is not in working order, or will not accept your preferred method of payment (card or cash); or VENDING MACHINE TOUCHSCREEN FROZEN WHEN PRESSING DOWN ON TABS. UNABLE TO PROCEED AFTER SEVERAL ATTEMPTS.
16 (3) (A) THE PENALTY FARE ISSUED IS INCORRECT AS UNDER THE REGULATIONS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ISSUED AT THE NEXT STATION AND ADVISED TO COLLECT THE TICKETS ORDERED ONLINE AS ALREADY PAID FOR. :"
"Dear members of the panel,
Please find below the reasons for the appeal.
Under Regulation 16(1)(a) of the Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018:
The penalty fare was not charged in accordance with the requirements of the regulations for the following reasons:
Regulation 5A of the Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018 (as inserted by Regulation 4(3) of the Railways (Penalty Fares) (Amendment) Regulations 2022) provides that:
“In respect of England, the penalty fare charged under paragraph (1) (of Regulation 5 of the 2018 Regulations) to a person travelling by or present on a train authorises a person to travel to—
(a)a station in England at which the train is due to make a scheduled call that they may specify, if the collector considers that this is reasonable in all the circumstances; or
(b)otherwise, the next station at which the train is due to make a scheduled call.”
The penalty fare notice issued to my daughter shows that it was issued in terms authorising travel to from Newington to Selhurst and that the fare charged was £100 plus the full single fare for a child from Newington to Selhurst. The train on which my daughter was travelling when the penalty fare was issued to her was not one that was scheduled to call at Selhurst. Accordingly the penalty fare was not charged in accordance with the requirements of the Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018 because:
a) it authorised travel to a station at which the train was not due to make a scheduled call; and/or
b) the fare charged exceeded the amount permitted to be charged under those Regulations because it was £100 plus the full single fare for a child for a journey from Newington to Selhurst, being a fare greater than £100 plus the full single fare for a child from Newington to the final destination at which the train on which she was travelling was scheduled to call (See Regulation 9 of the Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018 as amended by the Railways (Penalty Fares) (Amendment) Regulations 2022).
Under Regulation 16(1)(d) of the Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018:
My 15y/o daughter tried to purchase a ticket using the vending machine but unfortunately, the keyboard was frozen and unable to proceed. She tried several times without avail, she went to the kiosk to find a member of staff but it was closed and no other member of staff was available to help. Once she boarded the train she tried to find a conductor but couldn't find one so she purchased a ticket online as she didn’t want to be traveling without having paid for the journey. It has been suggested that the vending machine was working for other passengers, this was not the case for my daughter and as a consequence had no way of producing a paper ticket. Please note that in the past I too have experienced issues with a vending machine but have then had the option to purchase from a kiosk, this was not the case for my daughter and it feels like she is being penalised for trying to be proactive and not travel without having paid for her journey.
The National Rail Conditions of Travel clearly states the following;
6.1.3 At the station where you start your journey, there is no means of purchasing a Ticket, because - VENDING MACHINE KEYBOARD FROZEN AND KIOSK CLOSED. UNBALE TO PURCHASE A TICKET BEFORE BOARDING THE TRAIN.
6.1.3.1 The Ticket office is closed; or the TICKET OFFICE WAS CLOSED ON THE 21ST MARCH 2023. NO MEMBER OF STAFF AVAILABLE TO HELP.
6.1.3.2 A self service ticket machine is not in working order, or will not accept your preferred method of payment (card or cash); or VENDING MACHINE TOUCHSCREEN FROZEN WHEN PRESSING DOWN ON TABS. UNABLE TO PROCEED AFTER SEVERAL ATTEMPTS.
