Southeastern Advance Ticket Question

[johnny_t]

I have two tickets for today. One is Selby to Kings Cross, with an Itinerary departing Selby at 0911, Ticket Type 'Advanced Single' and Route 'Valid on Specified Hull Trains only'. Fair enough, I understand all that.

I then have another one from London Bridge to High Brooms, with an itinerary departing 1224. Ticket Type 'Advance Single' and Route 'Valid via any permitted route'.

Does that mean I can get any train from London Bridge to High Brooms, not just the 1224 ? I'm only really used to Advance tickets being for specific trains.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I'd have said that an advance single ticket = "Booked Train Only" for a direct journey such as London Bridge over to High Brooms.

 

[johnny_t]

I'd have said that an advance single ticket = "Booked Train Only" for a direct journey such as London Bridge over to High Brooms.

I played safe and did that anyway.

Southeastern's website says 'Advance tickets are only available as single tickets at specific times and on selected routes, but you can mix and match Advance tickets and times to suit you'. I've no idea what that means...

 

[CyrusWuff]

I played safe and did that anyway.

Southeastern's website says 'Advance tickets are only available as single tickets at specific times and on selected routes, but you can mix and match Advance tickets and times to suit you'. I've no idea what that means...

In BR days, Advance Purchase tickets were offered as Singles or Returns, with the Single often only £1 or so cheaper than the Return.

Now they're usually only offered as Single tickets and you can have different price levels for each direction. In some cases, walk-up Single tickets are priced at 50% of the return too, so you can have an Advance in one direction and walk-up in the other for less than the price of the walk-up Return.

 

[Haywain]

you can mix and match Advance tickets and times to suit you

It simply means you can buy tickets for the trains that suit you. It doesn't mean you can buy the ticket and then choose which train to use.

 

[greaterangrier]

I have two tickets for today. One is Selby to Kings Cross, with an Itinerary departing Selby at 0911, Ticket Type 'Advanced Single' and Route 'Valid on Specified Hull Trains only'. Fair enough, I understand all that.

I then have another one from London Bridge to High Brooms, with an itinerary departing 1224. Ticket Type 'Advance Single' and Route 'Valid via any permitted route'.

Does that mean I can get any train from London Bridge to High Brooms, not just the 1224 ? I'm only really used to Advance tickets being for specific trains.

This is a more interesting situation than a blanket no, by the looks of things.

There's many places where the idea about booked train only could be placed: most notably the ticket T&Cs, route and restriction code.

When purchasing, the ticket T&Cs brought up are the standard terms which state you can use this ticket on your booked train only, no refunds and no break of journey etc., so this is normal.

Next, your ticket has a route code of ANY PERMITTED which seems to be typical for Southeastern by the looks of things, however is unusual given it differs from practice elsewhere where "AP" (advance purchase) may be put in the route code, or a train operator restriction (e.g. "CHILTERN ONLY"). Typically in these cases, these route codes are dedicated for advance tickets so the description shown in online journey planners would be able to state booked train only, or words to that effect.

Lastly, your ticket's restriction code would have been SA which states "Only valid on booked train and connecting services only". However, this restriction code applies Monday to Friday only.

All put together, this means that a typical advance ticket states "booked train only" in at least three places, whereas your ticket only states it in two places on weekdays and one place on weekends.

To answer this situation more directly though, the conditions present within advance tickets require you to travel on the train services shown on your ticket unless the route states "& Connections". It does not in your case.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

As there was seemingly a gap in the OP's itinerary between London Kings Cross and London Bridge, would they have been entitled to board a later SouthEastern service from London Bridge (to High Brooms) than the one shown on their second Advance Single (departing 12:24); had their 09:11 Hull Trains service from Selby to London Kings Cross been significantly more delayed than just the two minutes that it actually was? (Arrived 11:19 vs 11:17).

 

[johnny_t]

As there was seemingly a gap in the OP's itinerary between London Kings Cross and London Bridge, would they have been entitled to board a later SouthEastern service from London Bridge (to High Brooms) than the one shown on their second Advance Single (departing 12:24); had their 09:11 Hull Trains service from Selby to London Kings Cross been significantly more delayed than just the two minutes that it actually was? (Arrived 11:19 vs 11:17).

I did have another ticket on the same booking (anytime single from St Pancras to London Bridge) - I just didn't mention it

 

[ThisIsSurbiton]

I then have another one from London Bridge to High Brooms, with an itinerary departing 1224. Ticket Type 'Advance Single' and Route 'Valid via any permitted route'.
Does that mean I can get any train from London Bridge to High Brooms, not just the 1224 ? I'm only really used to Advance tickets being for specific trains.

The Any Permitted is - as you say - the route, it has no effect on the usual Advance ticket conditions. In my limited experience Southeastern used to be a bit lenient about which train to catch, but I think now that they have more and more price levels and seem committed to the idea, those days are behind us!

 

[Watershed]

I realise it's now a moot point as you have already travelled. However, for future reference it might help to imagine ticket, time, and operator/route restrictions as applying in cumulative 'layers' (i.e. the most restrictive condition is the one that counts).

So in this case, the key condition of an Advance ticket is that you must travel on the booked itinerary*. This overrides anything else which would allow more flexibility.

An Advance ticket doesn't have time restrictions since you just have to travel on the booked itinerary, but an Off-Peak ticket almost always does. A Railcard might also add time restrictions to your ticket depending on its conditions.

The ticket's route is "Any Permitted", which simply means that there are no operator or route restrictions on which of the permitted routes you can choose when booking the Advance. You can even include Southern or Thameslink services in your itinerary, if you were to specify "via Redhill" for example. By contrast, if the ticket were routed "Southeastern only" then this would prevent you from booking on SN/TL services.

The route of an Advance ticket still applies in the event of disruption (e.g. if your booked train is cancelled). For a journey like London to High Brooms this isn't really a factor since you have to use SE anyway, but for other journeys such as Selby to Kings Cross it can make a big difference. You can't automatically take alternative Northern/TPE/LNER/Grand Central services to minimise the delay, for example. However, that might be permitted under ticket acceptance arrangements, and the operator would be required to make such arrangements if the expected delay is more than an hour.

So although in most circumstances the route of an Advance ticket isn't relevant, it might be the 'most restrictive' factor that limits your choices.

*There is a small amount of leeway for unreserved connecting services with paper tickets in practice, but this is becoming less and less relevant now that the majority of services offer reservations, even if only of the "counted place" (i.e. no specific seat) type.

 

[izvor]

The Any Permitted is - as you say - the route, it has no effect on the usual Advance ticket conditions. In my limited experience Southeastern used to be a bit lenient about which train to catch, but I think now that they have more and more price levels and seem committed to the idea, those days are behind us!

Agree with this observation, even on non-HS1 services.