Southeastern 465/9

[350yes]

Does anyone know what refurbishment the class 465/9's are having at Doncaster Wabtec?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Another refurbishment !?

Thought this was done a few years ago. Are they having some new mods?

 

[ScotGG]

It's not a refurb (the last was 15 years ago wasn't it?) but work as body panel issues I think?

They are 30 years old now.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

15 years, that long ago !?

Shame there's nothing to replace them for the foreseeable so maybe a decent body overhaul would be useful

 

[Electrostarred]

Overhaul their livery maybe? Or replace the seating. I grew with these trains in the South East and if they go...

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Overhaul their livery maybe? Or replace the seating. I grew with these trains in the South East and if they go...

...to the scrapman, then it'll be well past time and many commuters will weep tears of joy.

 

[Wheelnut]

I've noticed that 465921 (I think!) Is looking sorry for itself at the Grosvenor wall siding Victoria. Graffiti is begining to appear on it. I heard that it is rotten underneath, wondered if anyone knew anything about it?

 

[George109]

I think it's been there a while, I remember seeing a heavily vandalised 465 a month or so ago in the siding

 

[MrB]

Looks like it was stabled at Bromley North in P1 over the summer, so must've moved since then; believe the whole unit has failed. Graffiti has got worse since the move.

 

[jackot]

Overhaul their livery maybe? Or replace the seating. I grew with these trains in the South East and if they go...

Without turning this into another refurbishment debate, considering they are on the way out anyway and with the current financial situation of the railway, why would they need new seating? The most I can see happening is a very light 'refresh' at that, consisting maybe of a deep clean and some very minor changes, maybe new seat covers if you are lucky. I doubt a new livery would even be done. Bodywork or corrosion related work would make more sense, if they are planning to keep them in service for quite a few more years.

 

[JammyJames08]

It was parked up at Bromley North between April and about July, it was then moved inside the shed at Victoria #1 road around August then moved to the wall siding.

Apparently it might have to go by road for repairs, not sure how they’ll get it out or where it’ll go from but the unit has been outside for a good 4 months.

 

[Wheelnut]

It was parked up at Bromley North between April and about July, it was then moved inside the shed at Victoria #1 road around August then moved to the wall siding.

Apparently it might have to go by road for repairs, not sure how they’ll get it out or where it’ll go from but the unit has been outside for a good 4 months.

Can't see that it would be economical to repair, especially if you factor in road transport costs. Probably best to swap it with one of the better ones in storage?

 

[JammyJames08]

I think so far they’ve tried to bring two units back from storage for repairs (465240 was one, can’t remember the other) each unit spent about a fortnight at Doncaster then went back to Ely and nothing since then, so there’s not much incentive at the moment.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Dec 2022 ==

Some photos from a passing train

 

[brad465]

I've seen it plenty going in and out of Victoria, where I believed that happened to be where it was stabled while waiting to go to Doncaster as part of the 465/9 overhauls. If it's as bad as being described I'm surprised they haven't tried to deal with it sooner, whether that be by prioritising it for Doncaster repairs or sending it to storage, something 465912 did for a little while (now back in service after its repairs were completed).

 

[George109]

What's wrong with the unit?
Is it electrically dead? Does this mean it'd have to be dragged out, how do you get the train onto the road transport?

 

[Foxxle]

I spotted it at Bromley North in the summer, covered in graffiti so it's not a recent thing. Did have a picture somewhere, I'll see if I can find it

 

[Deepgreen]

Surely even if it's a total traction failure it can be hauled (NOT dragged!) somewhere with appropriate barrier and brake force vehicles? How could a unit be such a failure that it can't run on rails?

 

[ComUtoR]

How could a unit be such a failure that it can't run on rails?

Wheel-flats ? Maybe it requires skating of some description. Could even had been a hot axle box and then the axle seized or something.

 

[brad465]

Not quite the same issue but reminds me of the last 365 to go to scrap (365506 IIRC), having had several attempts to move it but due to brake issues couldn't. In the end it was moved with several brake wagons attached and a low speed restriction for the whole diagram hauling it to Newport.

 

[Grvrdvicdr]

It has a cracked bolster so likely off to scrap, no reason in repairing it

 

[43096]

It has a cracked bolster so likely off to scrap, no reason in repairing it

That's a decision for Angel, as vehicle owners, not South Eastern. If Angel tell South Eastern to repair it, they'll have to repair it.

 

[George109]

What is a bolster?

 

[zwk500]

Is there road access to Stewart's Lane depot? I can't think what the nearest place after that would be where the unit could be craned/winched onto a flatbed. I expect being hauled away by rail is the most likely outcome, although exactly what form that takes will be interesting to see.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

What is a bolster?

The bogie mounting. Not something you'd want to find a crack in!

 

[LBMPSB]

465/9s are going for a refresh of interior. I am rather surprised that Southeastern didn't go for the 365s as they were withdrawn from Great Northern. Despite their age, they were in good condition still and far superior to any 465 variant. I suspect cost to reconvert back to third rail and hire costs from the ROSCO were prohibitive. Always amazed me that they got rid of their original allocation of 365s and then later converted a batch of 465s to 465/9s.

 

[JonathanH]

I am rather surprised that Southeastern didn't go for the 365s as they were withdrawn from Great Northern.

There was no possibility of conversion back to third rail operation as the equipment had been disposed of.

https://railforums.co.uk/threads/go...of-class-365-fleet.189660/page-2#post-4173799

All DC current collection equipment (shoe beams, cables, arc shields, fuse boxes etc) were removed during conversion at Doncaster works. One set were retained by Bombardier for possible pattern use at some point in the future but they were lost at Crewe works during the closure. The rest went in the skip. This was done as it was recognised at the time that the odds of 365's ever going back to DC operation were extremely long.

Always amazed me that they got rid of their original allocation of 365s and then later converted a batch of 465s to 465/9s.

Uniting the 365 fleet made sense in the context of the Great Northern operation. It was deemed more appropriate to bring in 376s to the metro area to release 465s to outer suburban work than procure a new fleet for the outer suburban work and leave 465s where they were. 365s weren't relevant in that consideration.

 

[_toommm_]

Could it end up like the Shenfield Shark, being left in situ for decades to come?

 

[zwk500]

Could it end up like the Shenfield Shark, being left in situ for decades to come?

I doubt it, they'll want the wall siding back before too long.

 

[brad465]

I doubt it, they'll want the wall siding back before too long.

I know the capacity of that siding is limited by 465921's presence, but can't a shorter unit formation still fit in there infront of it for overnight stabling, and then make sure anything in the way when 465921 needs moving is out in service? I'm pretty sure the unit still has the rear lights on the cab facing Victoria lit.

 

[zwk500]

I know the capacity of that siding is limited by 465921's presence, but can't a shorter unit formation still fit in there infront of it for overnight stabling, and then make sure anything in the way when 465921 needs moving is out in service? I'm pretty sure the unit still has the rear lights on the cab facing Victoria lit.

I imagine it can, hence why it's not been moved yet. It's still 4 cars worth of stabling though, and it might come in very handy when major works are taking place.