Southastern First Class

[All Line Rover]

After recently going on a First Class ALR, I can confidently say that Southeastern have THE WORST First Class of ANY TOC. (I know consider EMT to be very good!)

There is no partition, the seats are identical, there is no extra legroom, the tables are often smaller, I could go on - why would anyone want to pay for First Class on these trains!? A Swanley to London season yearly ticket is an extra 33% - or £1000 - extra for First Class!

You might be guaranteed a seat, but without having a partition I still don't see the point. One of the benefits of First Class is supposed to be a more relaxing, quieter environment. Because First Class isn't separated from the rest of the carriage, I don't see how Southeastern can stop all of the hot and sweaty commuters with Standard Class season tickets from standing in the First Class area. Very pleasant! :roll:

All Govia run TOC's have poor First Class sections - Southeastern is by far the worst, Southern the next worst (First Class on certain Southern trains seems identical to Southeastern). London Midland is the best on a Govia TOC, but still fairly poor compared to other TOC's.

I now understand why Southeastern give practically no information about First Class on their website. I think Southeastern should just give up, and convert the First Class area into Standard Class. It wouldn't be hard - they'd only have to remove some stickers and antimacassars! :lol

If Southeastern did have a section about First Class on their website, I imagine it would go like this:

First Class:

For only a few grand more, why not upgrade your season ticket to enjoy the First Class experience? Here are just a few benefits that First Class ticket holders receive:

• Identical seats to Standard Class
• Identical leg room to Standard Class
• Smaller tables than Standard Class
• The same level of noise as Standard Class
• An exclusive compartment with no partition door, identical to the compartment at the opposite end of the train which is Standard Class

In addition to all these benefits, First Class ticket holders get to be surrounded by hot and sweaty Standard Class ticket holders who are forced to stand in the First Class section because Standard Class is full. Remarkable, this is exactly like in Standard Class!

Why not upgrade to First Class today!?

 

[Turbocharger]

Shocking is all I can say. You pay extra to get away from the yobs and idiots who love to spoil the train experience for others, and that doesn't sound like paying extra and getting away from them.

 

[MCR247]

You pay extra to get away from the yobs and idiots who love to spoil the train experience for others, and that doesn't sound like paying extra and getting away from them.

Not on SouthEastern, you pay to guarantee a seat....

 

[yorksrob]

It all used to be so different in the good old days :cry:

To be fair though, you can still get a bottle of Shepherd Neame from the trolley

 

[bgstrowger]

Shocking is all I can say. You pay extra to get away from the yobs and idiots who love to spoil the train experience for others, and that doesn't sound like paying extra and getting away from them.

My experience of travelling on southeastern is all the yobs and idiots sit in first anyway, then start loudly effing and jeffing when asked to move into standard or pay a fine.

Ah, the joys of travelling through the Mudway towns...

 

[N Levers]

[*]Identical leg room to Standard Class

I believe there is actually LESS leg room in First...

 

[All Line Rover]

I believe there is actually LESS leg room in First...

Next time I'll bring a measuring tape.

 

[LE Greys]

It's no different in a 365.

 

[jopsuk]

Try NXEa and FCCs 321s and 317s. Especially the 317/5s.

It is interesting that the HS1 services have no 1st, instead having a slightly nicer Standard throughout. If it was up to me, 1st class would vanish from SE, Southern, FCC, c2c, almost all of NXEA (except Norwich Intercity services) and SWT (except 444 and WoE services), FGW Thames Valley and some of LM (former Silverlink)

 

[ainsworth74]

Next time I'll bring a measuring tape.

You should talk to Justin Smith as he was at one point going around measuring the leg room on various trains. Indeed I believe he even posted a thread with some results somewhere on here.

 

[LE Greys]

Try NXEa and FCCs 321s and 317s. Especially the 317/5s.

It is interesting that the HS1 services have no 1st, instead having a slightly nicer Standard throughout. If it was up to me, 1st class would vanish from SE, Southern, FCC, c2c, almost all of NXEA (except Norwich Intercity services) and SWT (except 444 and WoE services), FGW Thames Valley and some of LM (former Silverlink)

Didn't Connex (rather than SE) only introduce first rather grudgingly after complaints that they had done away with it? That might be why the seats are exactly like standard ones, they are standard ones.

 

[150222]

Try NXEa and FCCs 321s and 317s. Especially the 317/5s.

It is interesting that the HS1 services have no 1st, instead having a slightly nicer Standard throughout. If it was up to me, 1st class would vanish from SE, Southern, FCC, c2c, almost all of NXEA (except Norwich Intercity services) and SWT (except 444 and WoE services), FGW Thames Valley and some of LM (former Silverlink)

i thought that c2c did not offer first class?

 

[jopsuk]

Doh! you're right.

 

[317666]

It's no different in a 365.

365 first class does have more comfortable seats, a partition door, reading lights, armrests, and larger tables though. 375s there is no difference at all.

 

[387star]

Southern 377/3s and most 377/1s are no different

Do SouthEastern have a grey or blue carpet by the way? The Southern green and yellow carpet clashes with the grey/blue colour scheme. Was the carpet South Central inspired anyone know?

 

[mallard]

I'm pretty sure Connex wanted to do away with First Class when they introduced the Electrostars, specifying a completely standard-class interior. The only reason it exists is due to complaints by well-off city commuters. It exists solely to provide them with a "guaranteed" seat during the peaks. Outside of the peaks there are almost always plenty of (identical as you say) seats in standard, so there's no need to pay for first.

Quite frankly, I don't see what you're complaining about. Your ALR wouldn't be any cheaper if SouthEastern abolished first class, and you don't seem to have a problem with the standard-only operators. "First class" on a commuter TOC like SouthEastern is a completely different product to that on an Intercity operator and clearly, you aren't in their target market.

 

[LE Greys]

I'm pretty sure Connex wanted to do away with First Class when they introduced the Electrostars, specifying a completely standard-class interior. The only reason it exists is due to complaints by well-off city commuters. It exists solely to provide them with a "guaranteed" seat during the peaks. Outside of the peaks there are almost always plenty of (identical as you say) seats in standard, so there's no need to pay for first.

I thought that was the case. First tends not to be offered on many new trains, and 377s have either a "medium-distance" or "high-density" layout according to Bombardier. With (say) the Scotrail 170s, First was planned from the outset, hence the doors and wider seats. MML 170s went to the expense of a centre car with much better seats, which Central first declassified then removed for reasons known best to them.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

365 first class does have more comfortable seats, a partition door, reading lights, armrests, and larger tables though. 375s there is no difference at all.

I didn't know about the reading lights, but the seats themselves just look like a version of the standard ones with fixed armrests. I've never bothered with FC on a 365, it hardly looks worth the effort.

 

[GodAtum]

Try NXEa and FCCs 321s and 317s. Especially the 317/5s.

The FCC 317s have a nice first class.

 

[Failed Unit]

The FCC 317s have a nice first class.

IC70 seats? hock:

If you like IC70 seat then go standard on Grand Central, NXEA or EMT

The FCC 317 IMO are the worse examples of first class on those units!

 

[MCR247]

I thought that was the case. First tends not to be offered on many new trains, and 377s have either a "medium-distance" or "high-density" layout according to Bombardier. With (say) the Scotrail 170s, First was planned from the outset, hence the doors and wider seats. MML 170s went to the expense of a centre car with much better seats, which Central first declassified then removed for reasons known best to them.
.

Central didn't remove any first class, was done under XC under the refurbishment to standardise 170s

 

[Fincra5]

FC on commuter trains, which technically Southern and Southeastern run, is pointless. FC only makes a difference on Intercity Trains...

 

[All Line Rover]

FC on commuter trains, which technically Southern and Southeastern run, is pointless. FC only makes a difference on Intercity Trains...

I agree. It's particularly pointless when the seats are the same with no compartment!

 

[Minstral25]

In the South East commuter network the point of first class is that you get a seat on the train. In the rush hour that is often a privilege. If I could afford it then I'd take it because I hate being squashed in standard.

Also they are pretty well used in the rush hour on Southern trains, so its not as if there is loads of empty seats that could be used by others.

 

[All Line Rover]

In the South East commuter network the point of first class is that you get a seat on the train. In the rush hour that is often a privilege. If I could afford it then I'd take it because I hate being squashed in standard.

Also they are pretty well used in the rush hour on Southern trains, so its not as if there is loads of empty seats that could be used by others.

But on Southeastern you get surrounded by Standard Class ticket holders who have to stand anyway! I don't see the point for journeys of less than 30 minutes.

 

[paul1609]

I usually travel first class on Southern on my 100 mile weekend commute. Its worth the extra £6 for a compartment that I generally have to myself with electrical power I can stretch out and watch amovie. I reckon its better value than first class on east coast which is usually rammed with people travelling on cheap advance tickets.

 

[lookingforit35]

I recall that when the 375s were new, Connex initially had a whole carriage of each train dedicated to first class, albeit that the seats still were no different to standard.

Not surprisingly, this proved massively unpopular as the first class seating therefore formed 25% of every service (more actually as other carriages have space given up for toilets). Ticket collectors got a lot of grief as they turfed out standard ticket holders leaving acres of seats free, and they also prevented any standing in the vestibules of the FC carriage.

A quick rethink led to the areas at the ends of each train being assigned to FC, and the cloth headrests were rapidly removed elsewhere. It certainly seemed to show a lack of foresight or indeed strategy on the part of Connex.

Do I pay for FC on SE? Goodness, no! What a waste of money, and if you really want to experience that "exciting end of train feeling" (!!) just hop on a 375/3 as they only have one FC area, leaving an identical standard compartment at the other end.

 

[hmp455]

The 465/9s (Networker Weald) basically have fancier seats and tables in first class-They were built as 36 'standard' 465/2s, and therefore don't even have partitions!