South Western Railway nationalisation time.

[trainstrainstr]

I wouldn't say I've been sat watching the FOI page but an interesting FOI just got answered. And I'm not referring to the one where the person compares the pertis machines to a tardis.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Many railway jobs will remain in the private sector after GBR is formed.
Much train maintenance is now done by manufacturers under contract to TOCs rather than in-house - eg LNER/GWR's IEP 800/1, Avanti's 390/80x, TfW's 197s, Merseyrail's 777s, Thameslink's 700s.
I doubt any of that will be brought in house, and the contracts are up to 20 years long.
Why should catering or any other outsourced service be any different?

 

[AY1975]

Not sure whether this belongs in here or warrants a separate thread, but as I recall when First/MTR took on the SWR franchise in 2017 they promised a £90 million station investment programme including the refurbishment of Southampton Central station, a new station at Wilton Parkway just west of Salisbury and two new stations in Guildford: at Park Barn between Guildford and Wanborough on the Guildford-Aldershot line to serve the Royal Surrey County Hospital, and at Merrow between London Road (Guildford) and Clandon on the New Guildford Line (although I would guess that Merrow is just about walkable from the existing London Road station).

Does anyone know if there has been any progress with any of those schemes, or if not, if there is any chance that the nationalised SWR/GBR will progress them?

The proposed Merrow station was also mentioned in entry #202 on page 7 of the long-running thread on sites for Labour's New Towns that already have rail connections at https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...t-already-have-rail-connections.262579/page-7

 

[Falcon1200]

Simply put… this is essentially privatising roles which already exist, or will exist under GBR.

Again, providing a service which does not currently exist, which is what is being discussed here, is not privatisation - That is changing existing roles!

Further to this, those working onboard trains will need PTS and unit specific training in an emergency etc. to even be insured to work onboard.

As above, does that apply to the non-railway catering staff on the Settle & Carlisle line? Or, indeed, to any other train catering staff - PTS and emergency duties will be the duty of Driver and Guard.

 

[greatkingrat]

Further to this, those working onboard trains will need PTS and unit specific training in an emergency etc. to even be insured to work onboard.
At which point, no ‘small catering firm or local sandwich man’ will find it economically viable, just to orchestrate the training.
So it’s a ridiculous suggestion from the off.

That's just wrong. Just because you work on board a train does not mean you need PTS. Generally only the driver and guard (or equivalent) will be PTS trained. Catering staff, RPIs etc will not be.

 

[PLY2AYS]

That's just wrong. Just because you work on board a train does not mean you need PTS. Generally only the driver and guard (or equivalent) will be PTS trained. Catering staff, RPIs etc will not be.

Apologies to all on the thread, was under the impression that all on board staff needed PTS. Silly of me.

 

[Carlisle]

Was their industrial action when BR wound down Traveller's Fayre and replaced them with private stores ?

No, if memory serves correctly, the prospect of improved pay rates, a fairly generous voluntary severance scheme, Government legislation protecting BR staff travel facilities & TUPE laws essentially safeguarding some significant BR T&Cs seemed sufficient to prevent a major &/or coordinated national rebellion by unions against privatisation at the time.

 

[F Great Eastern]

I haven't noticed any positive changes the last week, more the reverse I'm afraid. Short forms on the Reading Line and I've even seen one staff member arguing with another staff member for apologising that the service was short formed. I do not understand why he was castigated? Apologising to customers is the right thing to do,

I hope this is not going to be indicative of where we are heading and that because the government is so invested in this policy, they are going to try and hide any shortcomings that happen under it's ownership in the hope that if they don't admit to them, then they are not drawing attention to them therefore nobody will pick up on it.,

My big fear about GBR is that it'll end up being heavily politicised and they will try and cover up any issues but try and take all the praise. One former person who left the industry several years ago, called this mantra the 'privatise the blame and nationalise the praise' agenda and that is what we cannot have happen to our railways. The idea that only services that achieve certain standards will get Great British Railways just STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN of political point scoring in that anything that isn't up to standard is DEFINATELY not the DfTs fault but anything that is up to standard HAS to be. T

Transparency is vital on this but unless things are run FIRMLY at arms length from the DfT, I worry that politics and ideology and saying they are doing the right thing and political point scoring will be the most important thing and they will just blame anything that goes wrong on the legacy operators but take credit for anything good. That is not what we need.

Also who manages the special notices board at Waterloo on the LED boards and why do they no longer post any details of service disruption on those panels anymore this week? Is it Network Rail or SWR? I felt awful for the SWR staff who were constantly badgered with basic questions because all the station could managed was showing DELAY next to every train.

I felt really bad for the customer facing staff these last few days, they were being sold a pup by someone or other.

 

[winks]

Not sure whether this belongs in here or warrants a separate thread, but as I recall when First/MTR took on the SWR franchise in 2017 they promised a £90 million station investment programme including the refurbishment of Southampton Central station, a new station at Wilton Parkway just west of Salisbury and two new stations in Guildford: at Park Barn between Guildford and Wanborough on the Guildford-Aldershot line to serve the Royal Surrey County Hospital, and at Merrow between London Road (Guildford) and Clandon on the New Guildford Line (although I would guess that Merrow is just about walkable from the existing London Road station).

Does anyone know if there has been any progress with any of those schemes, or if not, if there is any chance that the nationalised SWR/GBR will progress them?

The proposed Merrow station was also mentioned in entry #202 on page 7 of the long-running thread on sites for Labour's New Towns that already have rail connections at https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...t-already-have-rail-connections.262579/page-7

Pretty sure Southampton Central got a revamp and a new lick of paint (South side). When you visit the station to be honest you don’t notice it’s been refurbed…

Southampton Central train station reopens new £5.5m interchange

The works at Southampton Central Station, which started early in 2023, come to an end.

www.bbc.com

 

[317 forever]

Should they have stuck with 'Badgerline Group'?

It has sometimes been suggested that it was GRT taking over Badgerline but that Trevor Smallwood hadn't immediately noticed.

My own feeling had been that Badgerline and GRT had wanted to become the first ie largest bus company in England/Wales and Scotland respectively, but felt that they were more likely to become the first/largest bus company in Britain by merging. GRT already had some bus companies in England by then.

Ultimately they did achieve this, but only from 1996 until 2010. Their selective cuts, together with Stagecoach maintaining a larger proportion of their own networks and acquisitions of their own, and subsequent divestments by First make it unlikely they will regain that status, although the various franchising schemes might just enable First to become the largest bus company in Britain again.

 

[Djgr]

It has sometimes been suggested that it was GRT taking over Badgerline but that Trevor Smallwood hadn't immediately noticed.

My own feeling had been that Badgerline and GRT had wanted to become the first ie largest bus company in England/Wales and Scotland respectively, but felt that they were more likely to become the first/largest bus company in Britain by merging. GRT already had some bus companies in England by then.

Ultimately they did achieve this, but only from 1996 until 2010. Their selective cuts, together with Stagecoach maintaining a larger proportion of their own networks and acquisitions of their own, and subsequent divestments by First make it unlikely they will regain that status, although the various franchising schemes might just enable First to become the largest bus company in Britain again.

When I hear the word "first" I think "best" and that's a bit problematic unless an organisation is really going to up its game to customers, rather than shareholders.

Obviously when a key part of your proposition is offering something called "first class" travel then we have the recipe for a shed load of confusion.

 

[Deepgreen]

A friend of mine today has told me that he and his wife were told by an SWR ticket checker (he didn't say whether train crew or otherwise) that his retired LU/TfL staff free ticket was no longer valid as SWR had been renationalised! I do wonder who is telling these SWR staff members all this rubbish.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Probably nobody. Just a poor assumption by the member of staff concerned.

 

[Kilopylae]

Probably nobody. Just a poor assumption by the member of staff concerned.

That would be quite a big change for a staff member to make up!

 

[Lewisham2221]

That would be quite a big change for a staff member to make up!

Did SWR have some sort of reciprocal arrangement in place with other First Group TOCs? I'm guessing they did. Somebody's most likely misunderstood/miscommunicated something along the lines of "the only staff passes now valid on SWR services are SWR staff passes"

 

[Clarence Yard]

A few staff make up their own rules on hearsay or a misinterpretation. Sometimes you only find out when the punter puts in a complaint.

People are human and can make mistakes on their own.

 

[Deepgreen]

A few staff make up their own rules on hearsay or a misinterpretation. Sometimes you only find out when the punter puts in a complaint.

People are human and can make mistakes on their own.

They can (and do) indeed! If it had been me, and the staff refused to accept my point, I would have offered to call the BTP. If the staff still refused to accept reality, so be it..."see it, say it, sorted"!!

 

[74A]

A friend of mine today has told me that he and his wife were told by an SWR ticket checker (he didn't say whether train crew or otherwise) that his retired LU/TfL staff free ticket was no longer valid as SWR had been renationalised! I do wonder who is telling these SWR staff members all this rubbish.

What is a LU/Tfl staff free ticket? Don't think there is any such thing. There is an Oyster card but that has never been valid on SWR anyway !

 

[Leyland Bus]

What is a LU/Tfl staff free ticket? Don't think there is any such thing. There is an Oyster card but that has never been valid on SWR anyway !

Surely they mean a staff pass?

 

[Deepgreen]

What is a LU/Tfl staff free ticket? Don't think there is any such thing. There is an Oyster card but that has never been valid on SWR anyway !

Staff and retired staff who are eligible (depending on length of service, grade, etc.) receive a Free Ticket each year which allows free travel on National Rail services. The number of free journeys allowed depands on the individuals' entitlements. Senior staff/retired staff also get a universal free pass.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Did SWR have some sort of reciprocal arrangement in place with other First Group TOCs? I'm guessing they did. Somebody's most likely misunderstood/miscommunicated something along the lines of "the only staff passes now valid on SWR services are SWR staff passes"

Yes, we had free travel boxes for use on other First franchises, those boxes are no longer valid on SWR or by SWR staff. Other than that there has been no change to travel facilities for either serving or retired staff on SWR.

 

[whoosh]

One of the problems in the UK is the obsession that everything must make money on its own individual basis. The major train operators elsewhere in Europe will readily admit that catering does not stand on its own two feet and never will, but that it is an important part of the overall product and the disbenefit of removing it would outweigh the money saved.

East Midlands Trains claimed they 'saved' £1,000,000 on abolishing Midland Mainline's free tea and coffee upon taking over the franchise.
However, typically passengers would spend on a chocolate bar / sandwich / pack of crisps, once lured to the buffet car, or asked, "anything else from the trolley?"

Sales figures declined afterwards, unsurprisingly.

with catering, I don’t understand why the rail companies don’t just give the opportunity for a small catering firm or local sandwich man to come onto the train at a particular stop and then get off again at another part of the network.

Because if I have unit at a railway station, I can have all my stock delivered there, all my staff based there, and all my staff will be productive for the whole shift. And, as it's a take away - no VAT.

If I have to have staff board a train with all the stock, they have to either be stationed at a buffet counter and wait for people to come to them through aisles strewn with dogs and suitcases, or push a trolley through it all and try and sell it. When the train reaches it's destination, it then sits there for 20 minutes or half an hour, with no-one on it - so no customers. And VAT is payable as it's classed as a restaurant because there are seats on the train, and every customer feels ripped off at my "inflated prices".

So I'd rather have a business at a station, where every person on the station catching EVERY train from that station is a potential customer, rather than limit my business to certain trains (which then will have a corresponding return train, which might not be busy at all, and therefore be a factor in whether I want to even bother with the outgoing one!).


The VAT thing is a big disincentive, and not one that the travelling public are generally aware of. This is a significant factor in my opinion of why catering on trains will never, "stand on it's own two feet," and if 'providing a service' is your aim, rather than making money, it comes at a bigger cost than it should. The 'thankful for the service/feel ripped off at the prices' ratio is less favourable than it should be.

Some first class tickets in the past had meals included, which I think would circumvent it and provide better value, but any other purchase from the buffet or trolley and it's another 20% whacked on.

 

[Carlisle]

Some first class tickets in the past had meals included,

I thought LNER & Avanti still do.

 

[Russel]

Pretty sure Southampton Central got a revamp and a new lick of paint (South side). When you visit the station to be honest you don’t notice it’s been refurbed…

Southampton Central train station reopens new £5.5m interchange

The works at Southampton Central Station, which started early in 2023, come to an end.

www.bbc.com

Was there yesterday and actually thought it looked quite unloved.

 

[Ian Hardy]

I was surprised to see the following website still being shown on the CIS on 5718 this afternoon: https://careers.firstgroup.co.uk/jobs/search

 

[I_am_Nobody]

I was surprised to see the following website still being shown on the CIS on 5718 this afternoon: https://careers.firstgroup.co.uk/jobs/search

The PIS systems all need to be individually updated by staff at depots, so the message will keep scrolling till depots have managed to get ahold of each unit. There are still some SWR jobs up on the FirstGroup careers page last time I checked too... so not entirely inaccurate!

Edit to add: Ah, nope. All of the vacancies that were for SWR seem to now have expired. But there's plenty on the new SWR careers page...

 

[Recessio]

Poster up at Guildford gateline this morning. "Great British Railways: coming soon", in red white and blue. Didn't manage to get a photo unfortunately.

 

[SWT_USER]

Poster up at Guildford gateline this morning. "Great British Railways: coming soon", in red white and blue. Didn't manage to get a photo unfortunately.

Same at Wimbledon this morning - I'll try and snap a photo on my way home.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jun 2025 ==

This is the poster at Wimbledon (and presumably the one @Recessio refers to at Guildford).

Image shows poster at Wimbledon station promoting Great British Railways.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Same at Wimbledon this morning - I'll try and snap a photo on my way home.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jun 2025 ==

This is the poster at Wimbledon (and presumably the one @Recessio refers to at Guildford).

Image shows poster at Wimbledon station promoting Great British Railways.

There's one atKingston too

 

[Kite159]

Same at Wimbledon this morning - I'll try and snap a photo on my way home.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jun 2025 ==

This is the poster at Wimbledon (and presumably the one @Recessio refers to at Guildford).

Image shows poster at Wimbledon station promoting Great British Railways.

Those posters have been popping up in many places on the network