South West Trains?

[edwin_m]

A brief Radio 4 report on network disruptions this morning mentioned "South West Trains".

 

[hexagon789]

A brief Radio 4 report on network disruptions this morning mentioned "South West Trains".

Tut, tut!

 

[cjmillsnun]

If I were making the decision I’d have Stagecoach back in charge in a heartbeat. The lack of any busses from Petersfield this morning despite knowing about the issues from the beginning of service was not good. Neither was the general lack of information down to the fact the CIS was showing trains running ‘on time’ and no announcements were being made.

 

[hexagon789]

If I were making the decision I’d have Stagecoach back in charge in a heartbeat. The lack of any busses from Petersfield this morning despite knowing about the issues from the beginning of service was not good. Neither was the general lack of information down to the fact the CIS was showing trains running ‘on time’ and no announcements were being made.

Stagecoach did seem to run SWT fairly well it must be said.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Stagecoach did seem to run SWT fairly well it must be said.

Yes, I always found them competent.

 

[hexagon789]

Yes, I always found them competent.

And with considerably better taste in livery colours!

 

[cjmillsnun]

Stagecoach did seem to run SWT fairly well it must be said.

They didn’t initially. The early days were dire. However they quickly learned from their mistakes and improved. They were without doubt the best of all of the south of the Thames TOCs. Sadly First and MTR despite both having experience of running TOCs are not learning from the mistakes of the past.

They’ve had a run of problems that are not down to them (as did SWT many times) but it is their response to those problems that is awful.

 

[hexagon789]

They didn’t initially. The early days were dire. However they quickly learned from their mistakes and improved. They were without doubt the best of all of the south of the Thames TOCs. Sadly First and MTR despite both having experience of running TOCs are not learning from the mistakes of the past.

They’ve had a run of problems that are not down to them (as did SWT many times) but it is their response to those problems that is awful.

Such is they way with many TOCs, they struggle to effectively handle issues.

 

[JN114]

If I were making the decision I’d have Stagecoach back in charge in a heartbeat. The lack of any busses from Petersfield this morning despite knowing about the issues from the beginning of service was not good. Neither was the general lack of information down to the fact the CIS was showing trains running ‘on time’ and no announcements were being made.

But it’s the same staff asking for the same buses and making the same train service alterations??? I don’t see how response to disruption has anything to do with who the franchise holder is??? When I manage train service disruption for my employer I’m not concerned with which company is on my name badge, I just try and minimise impact to customers and impact to performance and impact to where my fleet is going; ticking as many of the above boxes as possible. That First (or Arriva or Stagecoach or whoever) pay my wages doesn’t factor into the decision making process; and I would be utterly flabbergasted if it was a factor for any TOC controls. That’s just not how control staff work...

 

[30909]

It seems that SWT's relationship with bus companies in general has not been carried forward with SWR. Often we see SWR saying that if you wish to use buses, by which they mean service buses, there's no ticket acceptance. WRT the Rowlands Castle incident I agree, that at least 12 hours before, SWR were warning of significant disruption which one might have assumed would be enough time to source replacement buses, despite the high utilisation of the surplus drivers and vehicles on school contracts at that time of day. Moreover why could they not have run the down services originating from Waterloo/Woking/Guildford to reverse at Petersfield?

 

[hexagon789]

It seems that SWT's relationship with bus companies in general has not been carried forward with SWR.

Indeed, which is a bit of a shame. Doesn't help the passenger much.

 

[bb21]

But it’s the same staff asking for the same buses and making the same train service alterations??? I don’t see how response to disruption has anything to do with who the franchise holder is??? When I manage train service disruption for my employer I’m not concerned with which company is on my name badge, I just try and minimise impact to customers and impact to performance and impact to where my fleet is going; ticking as many of the above boxes as possible. That First (or Arriva or Stagecoach or whoever) pay my wages doesn’t factor into the decision making process; and I would be utterly flabbergasted if it was a factor for any TOC controls. That’s just not how control staff work...

You may experience issues if suppliers change. Just saying, not passing any judgement on that.

On the other hand, First severely lack experience (and expertise) in running such a franchise imo, and are very much out of their depth. FirstGroup's corporate approach (very different to Stagecoach's) may also have been working to the franchise's detriment but that is down to opinion. They almost certainly over-promised, and are very much struggling to deliver.

Whether it will get better remains to be seen. I am keeping an open mind for now but the signs are not good atm.

 

[hexagon789]

You may experience issues if suppliers change. Just saying, not passing any judgement on that.

On the other hand, First severely lack experience (and expertise) in running such a franchise imo, and are very much out of their depth. FirstGroup's corporate approach (very different to Stagecoach's) may also have been working to the franchise's detriment but that is down to opinion. They almost certainly over-promised, and are very much struggling to deliver.

Whether it will get better remains to be seen. I am keeping an open mind for now but the signs are not good atm.

It feels very much as though First are out of their depth, but they have handled similarly complex franchises before.

 

[bb21]

It feels very much as though First are out of their depth, but they have handled similarly complex franchises before.

I don't think there is any franchise quite like the complexity of this one. Even GWR have very different operating profiles, and they are still not doing very well (but better than before).

Thameslink can be said to be more challenging to run these days, but FCC's operations were fairly straight forward.

It is worth remembering that Stagecoach similarly made lots of mistakes in their early days, so perhaps comparing First ownership now to the Stagecoach ownership of the last few years is not particularly fair. Maybe they will come better in due course. I certainly hope so, but also hopefully it won't take too long for everyone's sake.

 

[hexagon789]

I don't think there is any franchise quite like the complexity of this one. Even GWR have very different operating profiles, and they are still not doing very well (but better than before).

Thameslink can be said to be more challenging to run these days, but FCC's operations were fairly straight forward.

SWR is quite a varied franchise it must be said but Stagecoach seemed to get used to it after a while, hopefully First will settle down eventually too.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Not sure how to explain this correctly,

The trains, guards and frontline staff may be all the same as before that you could think little would change. The management has of course changed therefore this noticable decline of standard of service that I could notice the change from SWT to SWR such as the trains being more late than often though I understand this is partly down to NR issues.

The way they are going such as reducing services from rural stations and removing bicycle storage areas plus the strike action which I can't see this happening under SWT.

SWR may be obliged to carry out the illogical actions due to ITT requirements from the DfT, that SWT likely would have disagreed to these that talks broke down last year then another operator was invited to compete against SWT for the SW franchise.

If SWR, like SWT, stood up to the DfT and said look this wouldn't be possible and sorry we won't do that etc. And the DfT would back down then by now we SW rail users wouldn't be putting up with the service reduction, strike action, disillusioned staff and lack of space for bicycles...

 

[hexagon789]

Not sure how to explain this correctly,

The trains, guards and frontline staff may be all the same as before that you could think little would change. The management has of course changed therefore this noticable decline of standard of service that I could notice the change from SWT to SWR such as the trains being more late than often though I understand this is partly down to NR issues.

The way they are going such as reducing services from rural stations and removing bicycle storage areas plus the strike action which I can't see this happening under SWT.

SWR may be obliged to carry out the illogical actions due to ITT requirements from the DfT, that SWT likely would have disagreed to these that talks broke down last year then another operator was invited to compete against SWT for the SW franchise.

If SWR, like SWT, stood up to the DfT and said look this wouldn't be possible and sorry we won't do that etc. And the DfT would back down then by now we SW rail users wouldn't be putting up with the service reduction, strike action, disillusioned staff and lack of space for bicycles...

I agree that SWT would likely have made a better job of standing up to the DfT.

 

[LLivery]

Even when you Google "South Western Railway", South West Trains info from Wikipedia comes up on the right.

 

[hexagon789]

Even when you Google "South Western Railway", South West Trains info from Wikipedia comes up on the right.

Dear, dear. So even Wikipedia isn't too sure? (No surprise there )

 

[HowardGWR]

Dear, dear. So even Wikipedia isn't too sure? (No surprise there )

No, that's not right. It's Google that isn't sure. Of course there will be a page for SWT in Wikipedia, because it existed and a user put in a page for it. There will be a page in Wikipedia for the Great Western Railway (the real one), the Third Reich and the Roman Empire.

 

[hexagon789]

No, that's not right. It's Google that isn't sure. Of course there will be a page for SWT in Wikipedia, because it existed and a user put in a page for it. There will be a page in Wikipedia for the Great Western Railway (the real one), the Third Reich and the Roman Empire.

Oh sorry, thought it was Wiki that was wrong. My mistake. I must learn to read posts properly. I keep making errors like this.

 

[Calchas]

• For stopping at rural stations in the New Forest and in western Dorset, that SWR are planning to cut from 2 trains to 1 per hour for these stations as mine is going from 2 fast services to 1 very slow stopping one

At my parents' station it's going from a slow through-train to Waterloo in the evenings to a service only as far as Southampton Central, with a twenty minute wait or so for the fast service.

I will probably start using a car for that journey if the change goes ahead. I really don't like the waiting room at Southampton, and no doubt they will use those terribly uncomfortable commuter carriages for the stopping service.

During the consultation period I did write to them and ask how much they were going to reduce the cost of a 1st class ticket to compensate for the precipitous decline in the quality of the service, but bizarrely I've not received a reply yet ...

 

[hexagon789]

During the consultation period I did write to them and ask how much they were going to reduce the cost of a 1st class ticket to compensate for the precipitous decline in the quality of the ser

I doubt they will, but you would hope that as the 442s and 444s (possibly the 158 and 159s as well) are getting 2+2 First that they would consider it.

 

[159]

Why are there only 4 trains going from Wareham to Waterloo on Monday 28 May? They're supposed to be running a monday timetable...

 

[swt_passenger]

Why are there only 4 trains going from Wareham to Waterloo on Monday 28 May? They're supposed to be running a monday timetable...

Because NR currently have all sorts of issues uploading timetables, as has been pointed out in numerous other threads.

With 28th May being a bank holiday, isn’t the timetable normally changed?

 

[swt_passenger]

I doubt they will, but you would hope that as the 442s and 444s (possibly the 158 and 159s as well) are getting 2+2 First that they would consider it.

Doubt anything will change at all. I don’t recall Southern ever having reduced the markup on First in their 2+2 seating, which is generally identical to Standard.

 

[hexagon789]

Doubt anything will change at all. I don’t recall Southern ever having reduced the markup on First in their 2+2 seating, which is generally identical to Standard.

Oh I don't see them reducing the First Class mark-up either. I just feel that it's warranted because of the change to the current First Class on the 444s.

Probably a move by SWR to allow them to reduce First Class provision in time.

 

[Calchas]

I doubt they will, but you would hope that as the 442s and 444s (possibly the 158 and 159s as well) are getting 2+2 First

Urghhhhh

Let me guess, still no on board hot food either?

A man can dream.

 

[hexagon789]

Let me guess, still no on board hot food either?

Not sure about that, but the 442s are not getting their buffet cars back anyway.

 

[swt_passenger]

Not sure about that, but the 442s are not getting their buffet cars back anyway.

And the 444’s buffets are being removed. Expecting hot food on a London and SE commuter route is a bit anachronistic...