South West Trains May timetable; train lengthening and stabling

[arty762]

Thanks for that. Makes perfect sense now. Which rolling stock company owns all of them? I assume this can only be done because all the rolling stock is owned by one company.

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Porterbrook own them, Alstom/Wabtec screwing up the project , sorry i meant managing the project lol

 

[hassaanhc]

Posted this in the "Class 456" thread, but equally relevant here:

From 19 May some Suburban area trains will be operated by 8.450 until the Class 456 arrive:

From Monday 19 May for several weeks the following train services will be operated by a blue 'Class 450' train rather than the usual red 'Class 455' train while we wait for delivery of our refurbished 'Class 456' trains;

08:36 Guildford to London Waterloo via Cobham
09:47 London Waterloo to Chessington South
10:39 Chessington South to London Waterloo
11:24 London Waterloo to Dorking
12:35 Dorking to London Waterloo
It is planned for all the services to run as an 8 coach train however as the blue trains are longer than the red trains there are some platform restrictions that apply as listed below:

08:36 Guildford to London Waterloo via Cobham - only the front 4 coaches will open at Cobham, Oxshott and Claygate.
09:47 London Waterloo to Chessington South - only the front 4 coaches will open at Motspur Park.
10:39 Chessington South to London Waterloo - only the front 4 coaches will open at Raynes Park and Motspur Park.
11:24 London Waterloo to Dorking - only the front 4 coaches will open at Motspur Park and Stoneleigh.
12:35 Dorking to London Waterloo - only the front 4 coaches will open at Raynes Park, Motspur Park and Stoneleigh.
Please ensure you are in the front 4 coaches of the train if you wish to alight at the stations listed.
If you are joining these trains at the stations listed please note that the Customer Information Systems on the platforms will show the train as 8 coaches long. You should position yourself where the first 4 coaches usually stop.

Therefore it could be assumed that some Class 456s will eventually turn up on these services. Still no information about when the first refurbished units are due, however I did see a photo on Twitter a few days ago of the first one in red (and boy did it look horrible). https://twitter.com/DriverPotter/status/466564523496075264/photo/1

 

[wimbledonpete]

I'm looking forward to the first day of the peak timetable tomorrow - the additional 07.21 Raynes Park to Waterloo might as well have my name on it, it's so perfect. However, with the 456s and 458s being late coming on stream, does anyone know if that will impact its running? Cheers.

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm looking forward to the first day of the peak timetable tomorrow - the additional 07.21 Raynes Park to Waterloo might as well have my name on it, it's so perfect. However, with the 456s and 458s being late coming on stream, does anyone know if that will impact its running? Cheers.

I heard elsewhere the two extra Raynes Park starters were always going to be an 8 car 455 operation - the missing 456s will be felt elsewhere.

 

[wimbledonpete]

I heard elsewhere the two extra Raynes Park starters were always going to be an 8 car 455 operation - the missing 456s will be felt elsewhere.

Oh great, thanks - an empty 8 car is going to be unheard of bliss.

 

[infobleep]

Posted this in the "Class 456" thread, but equally relevant here:

From 19 May some Suburban area trains will be operated by 8.450 until the Class 456 arrive:



Therefore it could be assumed that some Class 456s will eventually turn up on these services. Still no information about when the first refurbished units are due, however I did see a photo on Twitter a few days ago of the first one in red (and boy did it look horrible). https://twitter.com/DriverPotter/status/466564523496075264/photo/1

Lucky people. They have toilets on board I believe. Perhaps they should lock them out of use, just in case the locals get use to such luxuries. Lol.

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[swt_passenger]

They have toilets on board I believe.

They were removed by Southern a few years ago, possibly when the interiors were refurbished. I think they were locked out of use anyway before that.

 

[Olaf]

There are sidings to the north of Wimbledon station - on the down side - that were equipped with new lighting either last year, or the year before.

I've not seen them used yet, so would it be possible that they are intended for stabling the additional carriages?

 

[hassaanhc]

Well this is interesting. According to the Journeycheck page, previous 458/5 diagram is showing as being short-formed with 5 coaches instead of 10, along with another diagram on the Weybridge/Hounslow routes!

The following services:
0752 Waterloo-Weybridge
0933 Weybridge-Waterloo
1107 Waterloo-Waterloo (Route number 87)
1245 Waterloo-Waterloo (89)
(87 is via Brentford then Hounslow while 89 is via Richmond first)

 

[swt_passenger]

Well this is interesting. According to the Journeycheck page, previous 458/5 diagram is showing as being short-formed with 5 coaches instead of 10, along with another diagram on the Weybridge/Hounslow routes!

The following services:
0752 Waterloo-Weybridge
0933 Weybridge-Waterloo
1107 Waterloo-Waterloo (Route number 87)
1245 Waterloo-Waterloo (89)
(87 is via Brentford then Hounslow while 89 is via Richmond first)

This other diagram is the one that was first mentioned in the 458 thread here:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1781646&postcount=892
...and it was supposed to have started on the 5th of May but didn't. The short form of the previous trial service today suggests they still can't get four out of four units in service?

 

[infobleep]

Does this mean they get fined for the short formation. If so could they of not advertised the additional carriages and just added them unofficially and then announced it later on.

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[wimbledonpete]

Well this is interesting. According to the Journeycheck page, previous 458/5 diagram is showing as being short-formed with 5 coaches instead of 10, along with another diagram on the Weybridge/Hounslow routes!

The following services:
0752 Waterloo-Weybridge
0933 Weybridge-Waterloo
1107 Waterloo-Waterloo (Route number 87)
1245 Waterloo-Waterloo (89)
(87 is via Brentford then Hounslow while 89 is via Richmond first)

So I got the new 0721 from Raynes Park - advertised platform 1 but actually came in on platform 2, presumably empty from Strawberry Hill. Ran pretty much empty (ie no-one had to stand if they didn't want to) but I guess more and more people will use it as the weeks go on.

Between Clapham and Vauxhall we ran parallel to 458534 going into Waterloo, presumably to take up the 0752 to Weybridge. And to complete the SWT new trains set, the 2x456 went past for the first day of the 0745 Clapham Junction to Guildford via Ascot.

Hope that's of interest.

 

[swt_passenger]

So I got the new 0721 from Raynes Park - advertised platform 1 but actually came in on platform 2, presumably empty from Strawberry Hill.

I checked RTT this morning and it was shown starting from Woking Up Carriage Sidings, but from some time in mid June it is running from 'Guildford Down Carriage Sidings' (are they the new ones being worked on?) but still running via Woking, so it looks like P2 is correct at least for the medium term.

 

[wimbledonpete]

I checked RTT this morning and it was shown starting from Woking Up Carriage Sidings, but from some time in mid June it is running from 'Guildford Down Carriage Sidings' (are they the new ones being worked on?) but still running via Woking, so it looks like P2 is correct at least for the medium term.

Interesting - thank you.

 

[TEW]

I checked RTT this morning and it was shown starting from Woking Up Carriage Sidings, but from some time in mid June it is running from 'Guildford Down Carriage Sidings' (are they the new ones being worked on?) but still running via Woking, so it looks like P2 is correct at least for the medium term.

They are the new sidings. They work meant to be running from Guildford from today, but can't because the work to finish building them has overrun.

 

[infobleep]

It may not be possible but given the Raynes Park train runs from Woking and eventually Guildford, could they not run with passengers from either of those stations. So in the case of when it starts from Guildford carriage sidings, it might be able to pick up at Guildford or just Woking and may be some other stations on route or if that's not possible then may be the first station is starts from and then those it needs to run from.

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[swt_passenger]

It may not be possible but given the Raynes Park train runs from Woking and eventually Guildford, could they not run with passengers from either of those stations. So in the case of when it starts from Guildford carriage sidings, it might be able to pick up at Guildford or just Woking and may be some other stations on route or if that's not possible then may be the first station is starts from and then those it needs to run from.

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Isn't the whole point of the service to provide an empty train for passengers from Raynes Park, so that they'll not head for other existing trains?

 

[infobleep]

Isn't the whole point of the service to provide an empty train for passengers from Raynes Park, so that they'll not head for other existing trains?

Your quite right it is. Thinking about it, it's amazing how they can fit an extra train in the timetable from Raynes Park with the current infrastructure.

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[455driver]

Your quite right it is. Thinking about it, it's amazing how they can fit an extra train in the timetable from Raynes Park with the current infrastructure.

It is squeezed in and more trains will be running under cautionary aspects because of it, there is now no margin for late running.

Its going to be interesting!

 

[infobleep]

It is squeezed in and more trains will be running under cautionary aspects because of it, there is now no margin for late running.

Its going to be interesting!

Good luck with that one. Perhaps with an extra train to take passengers it will help dwell times at stations where passengers previously try to board crowded trains now less crowded.

If it does lead to more delays I guess they won't be able to cut it as that would look bad.

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[hassaanhc]

The Hounslow 458/5 diagram is showing as 8 coaches today, wonder if that is a 450 or 455? :P There is also a 455 working on a different diagram (as far as I'm aware it is different )

 

[wimbledonpete]

It is squeezed in and more trains will be running under cautionary aspects because of it, there is now no margin for late running.

Its going to be interesting!

This morning it came in on time, for whatever reason the guard took forever to walk through the front 4 to unlock the train, in the meantime the 0724 came in and got the signal to go first. Not sure why that all happened but I guess it would have caused a bit of a knock-on delay behind. (Not a huge one as we arrived at Waterloo only a minute behind the time the 24 normally gets in (0748).

 

[hassaanhc]

Does this mean they get fined for the short formation. If so could they of not advertised the additional carriages and just added them unofficially and then announced it later on.

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I don't recall them advertising it before the timetable started, only after the new timetable came into force. Therefore they might have got away with not putting it in the short formation list as they hadn't advertised anywhere that it was to be 10 coaches from then on . Although I'm being devil's advocate then .
At the passenger forum at Waterloo today I asked the Train Planning manager (I assume it was a manager :P) if they publish the booked train formation/lengths for their services, and he replied that they don't.

 

[Goldfish62]

Another thing with the new TT is that most up Reading services now seem to use the Up Windsor Slow and Windsor Reversible lines, as they did pre-2006. Although this means potential conflict with Up Hounslows at Barnes it does mean that they don't crawl behind stoppers on the Up Windsor Fast from Clapham into Waterloo.

 

[infobleep]

You would think the up Windsor fast would be for fast services and not stopping ones.

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[hassaanhc]

I saw a London-bound stopper from Richmond using the fast line at Barnes, I'm sure they used to use the slow? I also remember in the timetable that ended Dec 2013 that country-bound many Hounslow via Richmond stoppers used the fast line.

What is the reversible line, the rarely used one at the extreme end of all that passes the disused platform at Queenstown Road?

 

[swt_passenger]

You would think the up Windsor fast would be for fast services and not stopping ones.

For a number of years the four track section as far as Barnes has not been used the way it is named in the down direction, but to use the junction at Barnes optimally. So using the tracks the opposite way to how they are 'named' has a precedent.

It is possible Barnes may be the best place to sort trains out to get them into the right platform at Waterloo - for instance if they want to put more Reading trains into P20?

 

[Goldfish62]

For a number of years the four track section as far as Barnes has not been used the way it is named in the down direction, but to use the junction at Barnes optimally. So using the tracks the opposite way to how they are 'named' has a precedent.

It is possible Barnes may be the best place to sort trains out to get them into the right platform at Waterloo - for instance if they want to put more Reading trains into P20?

I agree that that's a rational explanation. However, today we crossed to the fast line after Clapham and followed a slow train into Waterloo, arriving late. I sometimes wonder what goes on in some signallers' heads.

 

[hassaanhc]

According to tweets by SWT it is due to a signal being obscured by trees at Barnes P1, and should be rectified by the end of the week.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Re 10.458/5 diagrams, Windsor one down to 5 coaches while Hounslow one is 8

 

[swt_passenger]

I agree that that's a rational explanation. However, today we crossed to the fast line after Clapham and followed a slow train into Waterloo, arriving late. I sometimes wonder what goes on in some signallers' heads.

I just looked at Realtimetrains and although for tomorrow and future days it suggests that Reading trains will use P2 at Barnes, for today most are showing through P1 - maybe they are having a bit of a play with the working timetable. (now answered as a tree issue in simultaneous post by hassaanhc above.)

Thinking about it more overnight, I guess since the modifications to add the Eurostar flyover the designations fast and slow are ineffective as both up and down directions merge for some part of their route between Queenstown Rd and Waterloo. Also, as said Barnes Junction is a major capacity issue which causes the down direction to be operated contrary to description - historically it really should have been grade separated like many other LSWR junctions...

In the future, if the proposals in the London and SE RUS for five tracking of the main side go ahead (i.e. without CR2) then it could leave the 'Windsors' with only 3 tracks all the way between Clapham Jn and Waterloo, which probably accounts for the planned capacity of the Windsor side always being given as much less than the main side.