South Wales 'Metro' updates

[Envoy]

I see Wales on Line are running an article about the lack of action to re-build a station at St.Athan. It must be really galling for people in this village to see all of the upgrades taking place for valley services to Cardiff yet so far, they have yet to see any improvements. No new trains on the Vale of Glam Coast Line nor increased frequency even though the line serves Rhoose - for Cardiff International Airport via the 2 mile shuttle bus link.

The growing village which urgently wants its train station back

St Athan lost its railway station when passenger services ended on the line in 1964. Trains returned in 2005 but the station didn't despite the village growing at a very rapid rate

www.walesonline.co.uk

"St Athan featured heavily in Vale of Glamorgan Council's plans for future housing - something called the local development plan (LDP) - and hundreds of homes have been built as part of this so far. In the follow-up to this document, the RLDP, the council is again looking at land in St Athan for more homes. However, despite talk of a new railway station and a Government pledge earlier this year to help create a business case, there are doubts as to if and when anything will happen".

 

[positron]

The new stations do not only serve Bristol to Cardiff services - they also serve Cardiff to Chepstow - and in both cases the consultation exercise proposed increased service frequency. And in the case of the stations between Cardiff & Newport they would also serve Cardiff to Ebbw Vale services.

These actually weren't mentioned in the consultation document. It seems like it would be bad decision not to stop them especially at Newport West but specifically only Bristol and Cheltenham services were mentioned.

 

[Smwrff]

These actually weren't mentioned in the consultation document. It seems like it would be bad decision not to stop them especially at Newport West but specifically only Bristol and Cheltenham services were mentioned.

You are correct - the consultation document specifically referred to increased services to Cheltenham and Bristol. But I don't think this precludes stopping the Ebbw services - especially at Cardiff Parkway which serves mainline and relief line.

 

[Solaris]

Fyi...

Story of the South Wales Metro / Cardiff Capital Region Metro

Mark Barry's story of the development of the South Wales Metro / Cardiff Capital Region Metro from 2010-2024

cardiffmetro.wales

“How to build a Metro”, is my story of the Cardiff Capital Region Metro since I first set out the concept in 2010, and one record of the advocacy and development of perhaps the most important public transport project in Wales. The book was drafted between 2021 and July 2024 – and will be subject to further revision.

It is an unedited personal view and record that I am sure some will challenge. As I control the content and can update as the need arises, I welcome such challenge. I am not precious about hard copies collecting dust on shelves either.

The intended primary audience for this book are those in Wales with an interest in public transport, planning, economic development, regeneration, government policy thereof and the workings of the Welsh Government and civil service.

Given some of the backroom details included, it may also act as a “how to” guidebook for people and organisations in other places that need a Metro...

 

[anthony263]

I see Wales on Line are running an article about the lack of action to re-build a station at St.Athan. It must be really galling for people in this village to see all of the upgrades taking place for valley services to Cardiff yet so far, they have yet to see any improvements. No new trains on the Vale of Glam Coast Line nor increased frequency even though the line serves Rhoose - for Cardiff International Airport via the 2 mile shuttle bus link.

The growing village which urgently wants its train station back

St Athan lost its railway station when passenger services ended on the line in 1964. Trains returned in 2005 but the station didn't despite the village growing at a very rapid rate

www.walesonline.co.uk

The VOG needs its half hourly service. A station at St Athan especially now with all the housing developments in the area should happen along with a station at Cowbridge road in Bridgend by Tescos

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

The VOG needs its half hourly service. A station at St Athan especially now with all the housing developments in the area should happen along with a station at Cowbridge road in Bridgend by Tescos

Agree entirely. I guess the problem is that the line is owned by Network Rail which makes improvements more complex than on Welsh Government owned infrastructure.

 

[CapitalStar378]

Agree entirely. I guess the problem is that the line is owned by Network Rail which makes improvements more complex than on Welsh Government owned infrastructure.

The Vale Line was reopened by the local councils so this shouldn't prevent any new developments. The issue I'd imagine is funding with the Metro already up to £1.1bn.

 

[CardiffKid]

The Vale Line was reopened by the local councils so this shouldn't prevent any new developments. The issue I'd imagine is funding with the Metro already up to £1.1bn.

The Vale Line was opened in 2006 by the Welsh Govt, not sure the local councils (Bridgend and The Vale) had anything to do with it bar being stakeholders. (You might be thinking of the Maesteg and Rhondda lines which were Mid Glamorgan Council funded in the 1980s).

Ownership of the line won’t be an issue it’ll be the cash to pay for anything new.

Welsh Govt very happy to pay for/contribute towards assets on Network Rail lines (Vale of Glamorgan line, Ebbw Vale Line, future 2nd platform in Penarth, Pye Corner etc) and take credit for it.

 

[MikePJ]

Ownership of the line won’t be an issue it’ll be the cash to pay for anything new.

Welsh Govt very happy to pay for/contribute towards assets on Network Rail lines (Vale of Glamorgan line, Ebbw Vale Line, future 2nd platform in Penarth, Pye Corner etc) and take credit for it.

There's one issue where ownership does matter, and that's the technical standards and project delivery of any upgrade. If the infra is owned by Welsh Government, they can decide what technical standards to implement and choose who delivers them (subject to industry norms and legisation like the TSIs). But if the infra is owned by Network Rail, any improvements have to be done to Network Rail's internal standards and using their systems and processes, which have a reputation for being slow and expensive. That's why the Welsh Government bought the Core Valley Lines in the first place - because they believed it would be cheaper and faster to do the metro project if they were in direct control, rather than everything going through Network Rail. (Obviously it's a matter of opinion whether this was actually the case!). My suspicion is that on the topic of electrification, Network Rail would want any work done to the existing national standards, which precludes the cheaper discontinuous electrification that's being implemented on the Core Valley Lines. So putting up wires on the Penarth branch (say) would be disproportionately expensive as it would have to be continuous electrification to NR's standards.

 

[John R]

There's one issue where ownership does matter, and that's the technical standards and project delivery of any upgrade. If the infra is owned by Welsh Government, they can decide what technical standards to implement and choose who delivers them (subject to industry norms and legisation like the TSIs). But if the infra is owned by Network Rail, any improvements have to be done to Network Rail's internal standards and using their systems and processes, which have a reputation for being slow and expensive. That's why the Welsh Government bought the Core Valley Lines in the first place - because they believed it would be cheaper and faster to do the metro project if they were in direct control, rather than everything going through Network Rail. (Obviously it's a matter of opinion whether this was actually the case!). My suspicion is that on the topic of electrification, Network Rail would want any work done to the existing national standards, which precludes the cheaper discontinuous electrification that's being implemented on the Core Valley Lines. So putting up wires on the Penarth branch (say) would be disproportionately expensive as it would have to be continuous electrification to NR's standards.

I can’t imagine NR would complain if TfW wanted to (for example) put a fixed bar recharging facility in Penarth as at the bay platform at Caerphilly.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

I can’t imagine NR would complain if TfW wanted to (for example) put a fixed bar recharging facility in Penarth as at the bay platform at Caerphilly.

In principle, probably not but inevitably developments that involve two public bodies are going to be slower and more complex than those that only involve one. The main question often being "who pays?"

Given the underfunding or railways in Wales why should the Welsh taxpayer pick up the tab for improvements to infrastructure they don't own? It's true that in past the Welsh Government has done just that but given current budgetry coinstraints the tensions involved are pretty obvious.

 

[oglord]

Given the underfunding or railways in Wales why should the Welsh taxpayer pick up the tab for improvements to infrastructure they don't own?

The taxpayer doesn't "own" something run by the Welsh Government anymore that it "owns" something run by the UK Government.

 

[MikePJ]

One quick update - a lot more platform fittings are appearing at Cardiff Bay in preparation for the new platform to open after the Queen Street blockade at the end of October (the Bay branch looks like it'll reopen on Monday 4th Nov, but other lines will reopen on Sat 2nd).

I noticed this morning that there's new passenger information displays now installed at the city end of the new platform, and various metal stanchions and other similar fittings on the platform, waiting to be installed.

The temporary entrance on Lloyd George Avenue is also progressing, with concrete barriers and temporary fences in place.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Oct 2024 ==

Also - a new consultation has been published saying that the connection between Taff's Well depot and the main line will be commissioned on 10th November.

This will enter the system into service and allow rolling stock to access and egress the mainline at Taffs Well without degraded operation procedures.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

The taxpayer doesn't "own" something run by the Welsh Government anymore that it "owns" something run by the UK Government.

Sorry, I thought it was a fairly simple point spelt out in shorthand. If you really don't understand it - here's the longer version.

Each Government has its own capital budget which it uses to build and maintain infrastructure. It's the UKG's and NR's responsibilty to maintain and improve the infrastructure they own in Wales - not TfW or the Welsh Government's.

 

[oglord]

Each Government has its own capital budget which it uses to build and maintain infrastructure. It's the UKG's and NR's responsibilty to maintain and improve the infrastructure they own in Wales - not TfW or the Welsh Government's.

So what? The taxpayer no more owns something that is UKG's and NR's responsibility than it does something that is TfW or the Welsh Government's responsibility. Your initial argument appears no more than an appeal to emotion.

 

[stuu]

Sorry, I thought it was a fairly simple point spelt out in shorthand. If you really don't understand it - here's the longer version.

Each Government has its own capital budget which it uses to build and maintain infrastructure. It's the UKG's and NR's responsibilty to maintain and improve the infrastructure they own in Wales - not TfW or the Welsh Government's.

Councils and regional bodies routinely pay towards upgrades, both road and rail, which they don't own. Why would the Welsh government not do the same?

 

[positron]

Does anyone know what the changes being done at queen street actually are? So far I don't think there's been any documents released for what track layout is changing (if any)? I'm assuming they're moving some crossovers and bumping the speed limits on them?

 

[5021]

One quick update - a lot more platform fittings are appearing at Cardiff Bay in preparation for the new platform to open after the Queen Street blockade at the end of October (the Bay branch looks like it'll reopen on Monday 4th Nov, but other lines will reopen on Sat 2nd).

I noticed this morning that there's new passenger information displays now installed at the city end of the new platform, and various metal stanchions and other similar fittings on the platform, waiting to be installed.

The temporary entrance on Lloyd George Avenue is also progressing, with concrete barriers and temporary fences in place.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Oct 2024 ==

Also - a new consultation has been published saying that the connection between Taff's Well depot and the main line will be commissioned on 10th November.

398s have already used the main line connection to and from the depot at Taff's Well so is this just a paper exercise because someone forgot it before?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Oct 2024 ==

Does anyone know what the changes being done at queen street actually are? So far I don't think there's been any documents released for what track layout is changing (if any)? I'm assuming they're moving some crossovers and bumping the speed limits on them?

There are also signalling changes but no, we don't seem to have had any details

 

[positron]

398s have already used the main line connection to and from the depot at Taff's Well so is this just a paper exercise because someone forgot it before?

I think every outing so far has been specially sanctioned. The document mentioned something about no longer needing reduced operations or something. I think it's basically just to say it's now all wired up and properly signalled.

 

[Lurcheroo]

I think every outing so far has been specially sanctioned. The document mentioned something about no longer needing reduced operations or something. I think it's basically just to say it's now all wired up and properly signalled.

Yeah I think there’s a ‘degraded’ method of work being used to get trains on and off the depot not using the signalling system. But after this, they will be Able to come and go with ease using the signalling system. That’s how I understand it.

 

[Envoy]

Just a reminder that if you wish to comment on the proposed link from Cardiff Central to the Bay via Callaghan Square - that you have until 27 October 2024.
See document:> https://haveyoursay.tfw.wales/cardiff-crossrail

"Cardiff Council and Transport for Wales (TfW) are working together to deliver a new tramway from Cardiff Central to Cardiff Bay, the first phase of Cardiff Crossrail. It’ll enhance connectivity between the city centre and the Bay, benefiting the wider city and region".

 

[MikePJ]

Does anyone know what the changes being done at queen street actually are? So far I don't think there's been any documents released for what track layout is changing (if any)? I'm assuming they're moving some crossovers and bumping the speed limits on them?

I’ve certainly seen nothing, which is weird because they’re normally very conscientious about consulting on any changes that will affect drivers using the line. My suspicion is that this is all preparatory works for changes that’ll happen later. One example is that a load of new cable ducting has been installed, and there’s a huge pit on the city side of the line just south of Queen St station that looks like it’s intended to carry cables in a duct under the line. So it’s possible that this blockade consists of pulling in a lot of cables and other bits of lineside kit that’ll gradually be wired up and commissioned in the coming months.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Oct 2024 ==


Here’s a crop of the proposed track layout at Queen St from the project update in Jan 2024. (Post #5634). [EDIT] Looks like the loop to platform 5 will be lengthened towards Central, and a couple of extra crossovers will go in eventually. But this is based on me comparing this drawing with Google Maps satellite photos, and I’m sure someone will be able to work out the differences better than me!

 

[Bob Price]

I am wondering if all the effort right now is aimed at getting the 756's onto the Pontypridd lines as well as the three car units onto the Coryton - Penarth - Caerphilly workings? That would get the 231's back on the Rhymneys and free up a chunk of 150's and 153's to work the Ebbw Vales etc. Is the bay at Caerphilly wired yet? I did see somewhere that the Coryton branch is ready to be energised so it would make sense to get the 756's on this sooner rather than later.

 

[CapitalStar378]

I am wondering if all the effort right now is aimed at getting the 756's onto the Pontypridd lines as well as the three car units onto the Coryton - Penarth - Caerphilly workings? That would get the 231's back on the Rhymneys and free up a chunk of 150's and 153's to work the Ebbw Vales etc. Is the bay at Caerphilly wired yet? I did see somewhere that the Coryton branch is ready to be energised so it would make sense to get the 756's on this sooner rather than later.

The TfW spiel about the 2 week closure of the Coryton branch says new electric trains are being introduced on the Coryton line in the Spring, I assume these will be the 3 car 756s and that these will be used on the Caerphilly to Penarths as well.

Does anyone know?

 

[MikePJ]

I am wondering if all the effort right now is aimed at getting the 756's onto the Pontypridd lines as well as the three car units onto the Coryton - Penarth - Caerphilly workings? That would get the 231's back on the Rhymneys and free up a chunk of 150's and 153's to work the Ebbw Vales etc. Is the bay at Caerphilly wired yet? I did see somewhere that the Coryton branch is ready to be energised so it would make sense to get the 756's on this sooner rather than later.

756s are due to start on the Pontypridd routes next month, for exactly this reason. We don’t know for sure about Coryton/Penarth/Caerphilly but there have been a few hints in that direction. Once the wires are live there may be a bit of integration testing to confirm that the trains, signalling and overhead all play nicely, hence TfW talking about a springtime start for the electric trains to Coryton.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Oct 2024 ==

Via TfW social media (not always 100% reliable) - 756s are due to be introduced on Merthyr/Aberdare services initially, and then on Treherbert ones. https://twitter.com/transport_wales/status/1846189307737825448

The Class 756 trains will initially be introduced onto the Merthyr to Aberdare loop, followed by the Treherbert line shortly afterwards. ^Ned

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Oct 2024 ==

Blockades update:

• Coryton reopens tomorrow (21st October) after being shut for two weeks.
• There was also a Rhymney line complete closure this weekend.
• Next Sunday (27th) there's a week-long total shutdown of Queen St, reopening on Saturday 2nd. This also includes a complete closure of the Rhymney line, the Coryton line and the Bay line, and Pontypridd trains will run via the City Line. On Wed 30th, so part-way through the blockade, the wires are supposed to go live from Heath to Coryton, from Heath to Lisvane & Thornhill and in the bay platform at Caerphilly. (see Appendix A in the attached document from a few weeks ago).
• The Bay line will remain closed until Nov 4th, and when it reopens the trains will serve the new Platform 2 via a temporary entrance on Lloyd George Avenue. The Bute St entrance will be closed.

 

[MikePJ]

I had a quiet moment this evening to look at the Queen St track plan again.

Here's the as-existing layout (as of March 2024):

This diagram was from the consultation in January 2024 about the installation of 9454 points, which were installed in March 2024.

Now comparing this with the proposed new track plan from the electrification diagram, I've highlighted where the track changes are. Red boxes are new pointwork. Yellow boxes are where there's existing pointwork in place for those movements but it's not clear if it will be moved or replaced to accomodate the new pointwork. Green boxes are the new pointwork already installed (i.e. 9454 points, the crossover on the Bay line).



The main differences are:

• the Up Llandaff Loop (the loop serving Platform 5) is lengthened towards Central.
• New pointwork forming a ladder junction between the dualled Bay branch and the main line towards Central
• Replacement of the existing crossovers between the Down Llandaff and the Up Llandaff (P3 and P4) with new crossovers of the opposite handedness.

If the pointwork wasn't changed, trains to Cardiff Bay using the new Down line (when it opens) would only be able to come from Platform 1 or 2. The extra crossovers mean that trains to and from Cardiff Bay will be able to access all platforms. Trains from Central will be able to access platforms 3, 4 and 5 (a slight reduction in flexibility, as at present they can also reach platform 2).

It'll be interesting to see if any of this gets implemented during the blockade this week!

 

[Envoy]

I find it incredible that the shut down of Cardiff Queen Street station for a few days of engineering work has not been mentioned on Wales on Line, BBC Wales & ITV Wales news bulletins. It is either a failure of the TfW Press department or the Media organisations or both to have informed the wider public who may not travel daily on the trains about this closure. I also note that major road works are taking place in Fidlas Road between Heath Halt and Llanishen stations. How on earth did that get authorised at the same time as the closure of the Rhymney Line? Goodness knows which way the rail replacement buses are going?

In London, they always give an update on the travel situation during the local inserts on Breakfast TV. (The weekend before last, the M4 was shut N of Bristol and again, no mention on the Welsh Media).

 

[Bob Price]

The Fidlas Road work is Dwr Cymru so that is down to them and the council to authorise that. Like TfW they obviously thought that doing it in half term week minimized the disruption. As for what the TV news run that is up to them. It's all across social media and I have seen Wales on Line articles. The TV news stations obviously didn't feel the need to add it to their line ups on a daily basis.

 

[RJ]

I find it incredible that the shut down of Cardiff Queen Street station for a few days of engineering work has not been mentioned on Wales on Line, BBC Wales & ITV Wales news bulletins. It is either a failure of the TfW Press department or the Media organisations or both to have informed the wider public who may not travel daily on the trains about this closure. I also note that major road works are taking place in Fidlas Road between Heath Halt and Llanishen stations. How on earth did that get authorised at the same time as the closure of the Rhymney Line? Goodness knows which way the rail replacement buses are going?

In London, they always give an update on the travel situation during the local inserts on Breakfast TV. (The weekend before last, the M4 was shut N of Bristol and again, no mention on the Welsh Media).

I drove the Rhymney route yesterday, the Fidlas Road closure is adding around 20 minutes northbound and 10 minutes southbound. The diversion is via Maes-Y-Coed Road, Caerphilly Road and Ty Glas Road.

This time, the duties have a lot of recovery time at each end so there probably won’t be any drastic steps taken to minimise the delay.

 

[Woolos 22]

The Fidlas Road work is Dwr Cymru so that is down to them and the council to authorise that. Like TfW they obviously thought that doing it in half term week minimized the disruption. As for what the TV news run that is up to them. It's all across social media and I have seen Wales on Line articles. The TV news stations obviously didn't feel the need to add it to their line ups on a daily basis.

Bbc wales would like you to listen to ththeit radio ststion to get traffic reports to increase the number of listern.