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South Wales 'Metro' updates

Daniel Boone

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13 Oct 2024
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I'm not at all clued in when it comes to road design but can someone explain to me why that section of A470 (Lloyd George Av) is so wide? It's being paralleled by two three roads, one of which is much faster. Apologies if this is off topic.
 
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WelshBluebird

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I wonder why they are only adding the 3 post midnight services on the Friday night, rather than on the Saturday night as well...

Saturday night is generally a favourite for engineering work, due to a later start up on Sunday morning. So eating into that extended period with later night services would be problematic.

Friday night *and* Saturday night is when decent Metro services run all through the night...

To be fair let's give them a chance! It has to start somewhere, and I believe one of the quotes from them is that they have the intention of running later services on a Saturday and on weekdays once the metro work has been completed.
 

5021

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21 Apr 2023
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Oswestry
Butetown update: here’s a video showing the new platform.

Thanks; excellent view of the new northbound platform which "only" seems to be awaiting furniture and the redoubled track now, but last week's blockade was also if not mainly to allow for adding structures to the southbound platform which others have suggested might come into use first. Can anyone confirm what if anything was achieved there please?
 

MikePJ

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Thanks; excellent view of the new northbound platform which "only" seems to be awaiting furniture and the redoubled track now, but last week's blockade was also if not mainly to allow for adding structures to the southbound platform which others have suggested might come into use first. Can anyone confirm what if anything was achieved there please?
I'll take a closer look at the southbound side tomorrow but my impression to date is that most of the work was focussed on assembling the precast blocks for the northbound platform, plus the addition of nonconductive lineside fencing in a couple of places. The northbound side also is waiting for the construction of a staircase up from street level - at the moment there's a temporary staircase made of modular scaffolding for the construction team, and the frame of the lift tower is there but obviously no lift!
 

Smwrff

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I do wonder who will use Butetown station apart from local residents. I guess it could be useful for CAVC students although that's a pretty rough area to walk through. To be clear, I think it's a useful addition, I'm just not sure how heavy the usage will be to begin with.
Some stations are only intended for local residents (eg Dinas Powis, Thornhill etc) some as destinations in their own right (Cardiff Bay)
 

Bob Price

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There are plans for the piece of land south of Callaghan Square to be redeveloped. If so gat station would be good for whatever goes there and will be nearer than Cardiff Central if you are coming down from the Valleys.
 

MikePJ

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Thanks; excellent view of the new northbound platform which "only" seems to be awaiting furniture and the redoubled track now, but last week's blockade was also if not mainly to allow for adding structures to the southbound platform which others have suggested might come into use first. Can anyone confirm what if anything was achieved there please?
Butetown southbound platform today - it’s still lacking platform furniture, ticket machines, etc, but the site compound hoarding is gradually being replaced with portable fencing as they do the access paths and landscaping of the area between the station and Lloyd George Avenue. The very solid fencing that blocks the tramway pedestrian crossing on the northbound side has now been finished, so that makes it pretty clear that the southbound platform will open first, otherwise they wouldn't have bothered fencing it off. The conversion to tramway operation is not due until 2027 and I expect TfW will want to open the station once the 398s are operating - perhaps in the spring of 2026?
 

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positron

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Cardiff
I wouldn't be surprised if they end up opening the south bound station before the 398s are even running. Especially with all the delays I think they'll want to show that stuff is still happening bit by bit.

I suspect it'll be a useful local station, and tbh Butetown during the day isn't as rough as is made out, with lots of new housing going in on Dumballs road it might be useful for them too (especially into the future if it goes further east). It will probably also be useful for events coordination when the arena opens.
 

chargesmith

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14 Nov 2023
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South Wales
I do wonder who will use Butetown station apart from local residents. I guess it could be useful for CAVC students although that's a pretty rough area to walk through. To be clear, I think it's a useful addition, I'm just not sure how heavy the usage will be to begin with.
Isn't it true of most stations that they mainly only serve local residents? I don't imagine many people who get off at Danescourt or Fairwater do so for work or leisure.

I don't think Butetown deserves it's rough reputation, I've never felt unsafe there personally. It's probably just a hangover from the Tiger Bay days, although I doubt it was unsafe back then either.
 

chrisjo

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Llanishen
Isn't it true of most stations that they mainly only serve local residents? I don't imagine many people who get off at Danescourt or Fairwater do so for work or leisure.

I don't think Butetown deserves it's rough reputation, I've never felt unsafe there personally. It's probably just a hangover from the Tiger Bay days, although I doubt it was unsafe back then either.
It wasn't unsafe at all, it was a buzzing friendly community when I lived there in the '70s , though I did get my bike nicked that was chained to some railings outside a pub once.
 

Tomos y Tanc

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I don't think Butetown deserves it's rough reputation, I've never felt unsafe there personally. It's probably just a hangover from the Tiger Bay days, although I doubt it was unsafe back then either.
I guess it depends what period you are talking about. I mean it had the reputation that most dockland districts did and no doubt racism played a part in that.

On the other hand, the idea that Tiger Bay was some multi-racial nirvana with everyone dancing around to Victor Parker songs is a major case of back projection. Ports, particularly ports of embarcation, did have high levels of things like disorder and prostitution. That's just the way it was.
 

Dai Corner

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I guess it depends what period you are talking about. I mean it had the reputation that most dockland districts did and no doubt racism played a part in that.

On the other hand, the idea that Tiger Bay was some multi-racial nirvana with everyone dancing around to Victor Parker songs is a major case of back projection. Ports, particularly ports of embarcation, did have high levels of things like disorder and prostitution. That's just the way it was.
About 20 years ago my then partner did a shift for a homelessness charity in the area. As I was waiting in the car to pick her up I was approached by a number of rough looking not-so-young women asking if I'd 'like anything'.

Perhaps we should get back on topic now?
 

Tomos y Tanc

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About 20 years ago my then partner did a shift for a homelessness charity in the area. As I was waiting in the car to pick her up I was approached by a number of rough looking not-so-young women asking if I'd 'like anything'.

Perhaps we should get back on topic now?
Probably! As to the earlier question of why Lloyd George Avenue is so wide. It was due to a fantasy of the then Cardiff Bay Development Corporation of it being the "Las Ramblas of Cardiff". What we got instead was a windswept dual-carriageway which seems set to become a linear park at some stage in the future.

To be fair to CBDC, I think they were also considering replacing the Butetown branch with on-street trams as the embankment was regarded as a potential 'Berlin Wall' seperating the social housing in Butetown from the, then new, developments around the Bute East Dock.
 

MikePJ

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10 Dec 2015
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It has a surprisingly detailed wikipedia page - I was surprised (but perhaps I shouldn't have been knowing my political history) that it was a Private Finance Initiative project.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

There's a very good history of the project here: https://davidpattenwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/cardiff-jonathan-toon-2012.pdf which explains that the grand plans of the architects were frustrated by the requirements of the PFI funding scheme once that came along and the result was a very wide, boring road flanked on one side by relatively small houses, whereas the original vision would have had 4-6 storey apartment blocks with shops on the ground floor and a lot more space for pedestrians.
 
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Cardiff123

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TfW have teamed up with a comedian to make this pretty accurate advert for social media :lol:

 
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It has a surprisingly detailed wikipedia page - I was surprised (but perhaps I shouldn't have been knowing my political history) that it was a Private Finance Initiative project.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

There's a very good history of the project here: https://davidpattenwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/cardiff-jonathan-toon-2012.pdf which explains that the grand plans of the architects were frustrated by the requirements of the PFI funding scheme once that came along and the result was a very wide, boring road flanked on one side by relatively small houses, whereas the original vision would have had 4-6 storey apartment blocks with shops on the ground floor and a lot more space for pedestrians.
Yes it's sadly very much a wasted opportunity, a tramway along this route would have been perfect. The designs for a park along with waterways look good though, if that ever happens.
 

edwin_m

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Yes it's sadly very much a wasted opportunity, a tramway along this route would have been perfect. The designs for a park along with waterways look good though, if that ever happens.
I have vague memories of being involved in an investigation in around 1997 of whether the Bay branch could be brought down to street level to address the severance issue. We concluded that if crossing Herbert Street on the level, it wasn't possible to get up and over the main line. So the bridge there would have to stay, in which case much of the embankment would also remain to form the ramp down towards the Bay.
 

MikePJ

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Yes it's sadly very much a wasted opportunity, a tramway along this route would have been perfect. The designs for a park along with waterways look good though, if that ever happens.
Assuming that the tramway is built according to the planning drawings, there’ll be several new crossing points which have steps and ramps on the Bute St side.
 

Smwrff

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I have vague memories of being involved in an investigation in around 1997 of whether the Bay branch could be brought down to street level to address the severance issue. We concluded that if crossing Herbert Street on the level, it wasn't possible to get up and over the main line. So the bridge there would have to stay, in which case much of the embankment would also remain to form the ramp down towards the Bay.
I would think that this would be the case if using typical train gradients, but maybe it would be more feasible using tram trsin (398) specifications ??
 

Bob Price

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I would think that this would be the case if using typical train gradients, but maybe it would be more feasible using tram trsin (398) specifications ??
It would probably have been, look at Sheffield and Manchester. However at one point there was talk of Pacers, with side plates over their wheels, being used.
 

Smwrff

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It would probably have been, look at Sheffield and Manchester. However at one point there was talk of Pacers, with side plates over their wheels, being
Pacers....ych a fi....

Too late now, but the 398s have a maximum gradient of 6% so it would have been very feasible.
 

Northerngirl

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Wirral
It would probably have been, look at Sheffield and Manchester. However at one point there was talk of Pacers, with side plates over their wheels, being used.
I would have loved to have seen that, maybe even got a few more years out of the wonderful things
 

Adlee Turner

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6 Nov 2018
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Which crews actually operate the VOG services to Bridgend? I vaguely remember it being in the hands of the mainline crews but I could be easily mistaken.
It is mainline crew that operate the VOG services. Although, it is still up in the air at the moment on who’s going to be doing what in terms of valley line crews doing the VOG services alongside mainline crews or just solely valley crews or if mainline crew will get trained up on the 756s.
 

The Pelican

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It would probably have been, look at Sheffield and Manchester. However at one point there was talk of Pacers, with side plates over their wheels, being used.
This makes me imagine the Wisbech and Upwell tramway surviving into the 80s. Presumably (since it's in Greater Anglia) surviving until 2017, to be replaced by a Class 755 with street running side plates- which is admittedly exactly what Stadler have built for lots of small Swiss railways!
 

enapace

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cardiff
Has anyone got any information on when Crwys Road Station construction could start I am considering moving and one of the places I’m considering is near the location.
 

MikePJ

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10 Dec 2015
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Has anyone got any information on when Crwys Road Station construction could start I am considering moving and one of the places I’m considering is near the location.
Yes - contacts for construction were tendered for in the summer, and the tender notices suggest a spring 2026 start date and completion in autumn of 2027. As far as I can tell, the winning tender has not yet been announced, so I would not be surprised if the schedule slips.
 

5021

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Oswestry
Has anyone got any information on when Crwys Road Station construction could start I am considering moving and one of the places I’m considering is near the location.
July 2027 according to a recent article in RAIL magazine. You pays your money.....
 

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