South Wales Metro - Future

[anthony263]

I appreciate that there will be more trains going in and out of Port Talbot once the arc furnaces come online, but it is still a very expensive project for something that could be achieved with a bit of loop lengthening here and there.

The only advantage remains that there is a way of getting around an obstacle between Bridgend and Pyle.

If we were talking about a world in which Swansea - Maesteg services made sense then that might be different. However, the direct bus never came back after Covid. Then, any Swansea train would need the northern curve and the northern curve is proposed for removal as part of building the south curve.

The x1 Bridgend to Swansea is being cut by tfw under franchising in 2027. The x3 is to replace the x1 between port Talbot and Swansea and renumbered as service 88 and also serving Goytre

The 87 neath to Margam is to be extended hourly to Bridgend at one end and hourly to Pontardawe at the other

 

[Topological]

The x1 Bridgend to Swansea is being cut by tfw under franchising in 2027. The x3 is to replace the x1 between port Talbot and Swansea and renumbered as service 88 and also serving Goytre

The 87 neath to Margam is to be extended hourly to Bridgend at one end and hourly to Pontardawe at the other

Makes sense, they slowed the X1 down a lot between Swansea and Port Talbot anyway. It does not really justify an X prefix.

I am glad to be able to drive now, the services have got worse and worse since I first went to Swansea.

All of this does not fill much optimism of a train service working, no matter how sensible suggestions such as this would be:

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Feb 2026 ==

An hourly Maesteg to Swansea via Bridgend could also increase swanline stops to hourly if pathing allowed. It would mean the option to change at Bridgend for anyone travelling on to Cardiff, complimenting the current Maesteg to Cardiff.

I can see how that would be good, but then there is no need to use the cut-off Pyle-Tondu link.

 

[SWML9102]

I can see how that would be good, but then there is no need to use the cut-off Pyle-Tondu link.

Exactly! Using it misses the main population centre of Bridgend and would be slower than the main line - it has a severe speed limit, as in living memory it wasn't much more than a loading siding for the open cast mine. It would cost a fortune to bring up to passenger standard. There is also a horrible open road crossing on a road junction in Kenfig Hill.

Its only conceivable future use is as a freight diversionary route if the main line has a long duration closure. You can't put steel coils and petroleum tanks on rail replacement buses! It was talked about using for freight diversion when electrification to Swansea was planned.

 

[MarkyT]

Here's a previous discussion that touched on the direct Swansea - Maesteg idea.

Could Swansea benefit from a Stuttgart 21 style rebuild?

I meant that replacing Neath with a Swansea Parkway station would actually benefit more than it would disadvantage.. this feels totally backways, disadvantaging away from a larger station to advantage a way smaller commuter base, especially when swanline would continue to enable Neath-Port...

www.railforums.co.uk

With the X3/88 extended to Swansea, the options will be direct or a change at Port Talbot for a faster train. I don't think there's any scope really for a direct rail service, via Bridgend (with reverse) or not.

Another concept might be to reroute all the Swanline stopping passenger services via the OVE and the new chord, relocating Pyle station. I recall there was a scheme years ago for a new station on the branch just south of the motorway bridge serving Glanrhyd hospital and the M4, Jn36 retail and leisure complex. Rerouted Swansea - Cardiff trains might also serve this station and it could become a P&R site. That would leave the mainline to all the nonstop express and fast freight traffic, though a freight might be pathed via the OVE where that was advantageous to allow another train to overtake it without a long dwell somewhere. This level of traffic on the OVE would likely justify some doubling to increase capacity.

 

[positron]

Still wild to me that 2tph on the Maesteg branch wasn't a day 1 promise for the wales and borders franchise. 1tph for a "metro" service is beyond a joke.

Why is it that this just never seems to progress despite plans going back years. Ebbw vale got millions spent on it for a 2nd tph and that seemingly needed slot more than Maesteg does.

 

[anthony263]

Still wild to me that 2tph on the Maesteg branch wasn't a day 1 promise for the wales and borders franchise. 1tph for a "metro" service is beyond a joke.

Why is it that this just never seems to progress despite plans going back years. Ebbw vale got millions spent on it for a 2nd tph and that seemingly needed slot more than Maesteg does.

Should have a 2tph Maesteg to Ebbw Vale Town service. The Abertillery branch to aberbeeg jct should be reopened and an hourly Abertillery to Newport service introduced maybe run through to Abergavenny.

The Maesteg branch ideally needs the Tondu loop sorted but also needs a loop from lynfi junction to wildmill at the very least to help with allowing a branch services to avoid blocking platform 1 at Bridgend

 

[positron]

Personally I think a 2tph Bridgend to Maesteg shuttle is better for users than an hourly to Cardiff. There's enough services between Cardiff and Bridgend, especially if they get GWR/GBR accepting PAYG. Seeing as the Maesteg branch is in reality quite self contained I wonder why Welsh government didn't get it transferred to them as part of the CVL transfer.

 

[Smwrff]

Personally I think a 2tph Bridgend to Maesteg shuttle is better for users than an hourly to Cardiff. There's enough services between Cardiff and Bridgend, especially if they get GWR/GBR accepting PAYG. Seeing as the Maesteg branch is in reality quite self contained I wonder why Welsh government didn't get it transferred to them as part of the CVL transfer.

I agree - transfer the Llynfi line to TfW and replace the through services with a 2 tph shuttle - using the 398s.

 

[Topological]

There should be 2tph on Maesteg, on Bridgend via the Vale of Glamorgan and Ebbw Vale. It should not be a trade-off.

I would also like to see 2tph at Cwbran, Pontypool and Abergavenny. That can be from an hourly metro and an hourly use of the Manchester/Holyhead (which serve 2/3 of them anyway). That might be as simple as slotting another train into the hour where there is no Holyhead and just stopping everything. However, one of the trains being a dedicated Abergavenny terminator would help allow the Manchester to go down to just stopping at Abergavenny.

Personally I think a 2tph Bridgend to Maesteg shuttle is better for users than an hourly to Cardiff. There's enough services between Cardiff and Bridgend, especially if they get GWR/GBR accepting PAYG. Seeing as the Maesteg branch is in reality quite self contained I wonder why Welsh government didn't get it transferred to them as part of the CVL transfer.

It is drifting a bit here. The loss of the Maesteg would remove a train that stops between Bridgend and Cardiff. That would need replacing. However, you could look to slightly rejig the timetable and add the stops into the West Wales to Manchester pattern (calling it this and referring to both the throughs and the ones that split at Cardiff so the Manchester part is a Mk4). Those are 197s and dont get too big a penalty from stopping.

Ideally, you could time everything to create another fast path from Cardiff to Swansea (the current xx:20 in the hours that is used is slow because it follows the Maesteg) and then you would have the current number of Bridgend to Cardiff trains. It would be good if the extension was to the Taunton GWR as that links to Bristol and the South West.

If a magic money tree ever appears, the 398 shuttle to Maesteg could even go to 3tph (though it will need someone with a better brain than me to work out all the necessary passing points for that)

 

[Caaardiff]

Personally I think a 2tph Bridgend to Maesteg shuttle is better for users than an hourly to Cardiff. There's enough services between Cardiff and Bridgend, especially if they get GWR/GBR accepting PAYG. Seeing as the Maesteg branch is in reality quite self contained I wonder why Welsh government didn't get it transferred to them as part of the CVL transfer.

People catching the Maesteg train don't all want to go to Bridgend. Most people continue to Cardiff. Many trains during the morning and evening are busy with commuters, and even more busier on weekends.

Removing the Bridgend - Cardiff section would mean other trains from the Swansea direction having to stop between Bridgend and Cardiff. Currently there is only a 2 hourly Pembroke stopper that fills in some gaps. Increasing the swanline stoppers to 1tph puts more pressure on the mainline, and would still mean a decrease in the current frequency for stops between Bridgend and Cardiff.

An hourly Maesteg - VOG - Cardiff train would be more beneficial. Meaning the hourly Maesteg - Cardiff remains as it is, then the VOG train allows for connections at Bridgend, creates a new link towards Rhoose (Airport) and Barry, along with the desired increase of the VOG line to 2tph. It may take a bit of remodelling of Bridgend so access from the Up line platform to the VOG is possible.

I agree - transfer the Llynfi line to TfW and replace the through services with a 2 tph shuttle - using the 398s.

Wouldn't that mean electrifying the line as well? Sounds expensive.

 

[Topological]

People catching the Maesteg train don't all want to go to Bridgend. Most people continue to Cardiff. Many trains during the morning and evening are busy with commuters, and even more busier on weekends.

Removing the Bridgend - Cardiff section would mean other trains from the Swansea direction having to stop between Bridgend and Cardiff. Currently there is only a 2 hourly Pembroke stopper that fills in some gaps. Increasing the swanline stoppers to 1tph puts more pressure on the mainline, and would still mean a decrease in the current frequency for stops between Bridgend and Cardiff.

An hourly Maesteg - VOG - Cardiff train would be more beneficial. Meaning the hourly Maesteg - Cardiff remains as it is, then the VOG train allows for connections at Bridgend, creates a new link towards Rhoose (Airport) and Barry, along with the desired increase of the VOG line to 2tph. It may take a bit of remodelling of Bridgend so access from the Up line platform to the VOG is possible.


Wouldn't that mean electrifying the line as well? Sounds expensive.

Good point about Bridgend remodelling. That would also have benefits when the VoG diverts are in operation.

I also take the point about 398s needing wires. I had blindly followed the previous post to mine and not actually reflected on the wire issue. That said, a similar rapid charge battery at either end could work to allow a shuttle between Bridgend bay platform and Maesteg.

 

[Smwrff]

People catching the Maesteg train don't all want to go to Bridgend. Most people continue to Cardiff. Many trains during the morning and evening are busy with commuters, and even more busier on weekends.

Removing the Bridgend - Cardiff section would mean other trains from the Swansea direction having to stop between Bridgend and Cardiff. Currently there is only a 2 hourly Pembroke stopper that fills in some gaps. Increasing the swanline stoppers to 1tph puts more pressure on the mainline, and would still mean a decrease in the current frequency for stops between Bridgend and Cardiff.

An hourly Maesteg - VOG - Cardiff train would be more beneficial. Meaning the hourly Maesteg - Cardiff remains as it is, then the VOG train allows for connections at Bridgend, creates a new link towards Rhoose (Airport) and Barry, along with the desired increase of the VOG line to 2tph. It may take a bit of remodelling of Bridgend so access from the Up line platform to the VOG is possible.


Wouldn't that mean electrifying the line as well? Sounds expensive.

Yes - every line east of Swansea should be electrified

 

[positron]

Wouldn't that mean electrifying the line as well? Sounds expensive.

Well it needs electrifying eventually? Especially if you're getting Cardiff to Bridgend done it's not that much extra.

 

[rf_ioliver]

Pleased to see the tram train extension out to Creigiau and Pontyclun/Beddau is still being mentioned.

I was looking around on Google Maps and noticed there's a housing area being built at Capel Llanilltern (just north of the A4232-M4 junction, and south of Creigau). It straddles the old Creigau railway, but looks like there is provision for a rail line between the two halves of the estate.

Would be nice if that can be continued via Rhiwsaeson to Llantrisant/Cross-inn, or via Efail Isaf and Tonteg ... but that's deep into crayonista territory.

 

[edwin_m]

I was looking around on Google Maps and noticed there's a housing area being built at Capel Llanilltern (just north of the A4232-M4 junction, and south of Creigau). It straddles the old Creigau railway, but looks like there is provision for a rail line between the two halves of the estate.

Would be nice if that can be continued via Rhiwsaeson to Llantrisant/Cross-inn, or via Efail Isaf and Tonteg ... but that's deep into crayonista territory.

This is part of the proposed North West Corridor route discussed recently, probably on the future expansion thread.

 

[stressdoubt]

I was looking around on Google Maps and noticed there's a housing area being built at Capel Llanilltern (just north of the A4232-M4 junction, and south of Creigau). It straddles the old Creigau railway, but looks like there is provision for a rail line between the two halves of the estate.

Would be nice if that can be continued via Rhiwsaeson to Llantrisant/Cross-inn, or via Efail Isaf and Tonteg ... but that's deep into crayonista territory.

Also if you look a little further north along the old alignment you can see where the route has been protected just the other side of Cardiff Rd where there have been a few houses built in the last 10 years or so.

 

[stressdoubt]

Anyone have any thoughts on how they are going to plan any future expansion from Cardiff along the NW Corridor?

From an infrastructure perspective these are the issues that imho need to be resolved:

* Kirton Close compulsory purchases
* Route through Plasdŵr - on street running vs reusing the old alignment
* Joining the Waterhall/Rhydlafr alignment with the Capel Llanilltern to Creigiau alignment to duck under the M4 at Cardiff West Services
* Site of the station and possible depot in Creigiau itself as the initial terminus of the line

If there is no compulsory purchase of the houses in Kirton Close that were built on the old track bed (where the Waterhall branch came off the City Line) then there can realistically be no railway out on the NW Corridor.

Once that political hot potato has been dealt with you then have the conundrum of Plasdŵr - 12000 houses being built on greenfield sites NW of Cardiff that are imho the driver really for the whole NW Corridor idea. If there is no accessible public transport from Plasdŵr, or the provision for it is poorly thought out, then everyone will jump in their cars and traffic will increase in an area that already suffers with heavy traffic. I think Plasdŵr will need on street running through its planned Covid centre to maximise its chances of success.

Joining the two old track beds together to route the line under the M4 at Cardiff West services will be an engineering challenge but it has to happen for two simple reasons:

1. The old Waterhall branch alignment was severed by the M4 and would need at least two bridges (one over the M4 and one over the A4119) to get close to Creigiau - adding millions to the costs
2. There is already a wide tunnel under the M4 for Heol Sant-Y-Nyll so why not use it with a small on street section?

The site of the old station in Creigiau was very centrally located for the village when it closed but in the 60 or so years since its closure the village has grown in size drastically and will only continue to do so with expansion to the south towards the new development at Capel Llanilltern. Also to get to it with any new line will require a bridge over Cardiff Rd so would you build the bridge and gain access to land for a potential depot or stop short of the site of the old bridge and terminate the line just south of Cardiff Rd?

EDIT: also is it just me or does the term “NW Corridor” seem a little Hitchcockian?

 

[MikePJ]

Anyone have any thoughts on how they are going to plan any future expansion from Cardiff along the NW Corridor?

From an infrastructure perspective these are the issues that imho need to be resolved:

* Kirton Close compulsory purchases
* Route through Plasdŵr - on street running vs reusing the old alignment
* Joining the Waterhall/Rhydlafr alignment with the Capel Llanilltern to Creigiau alignment to duck under the M4 at Cardiff West Services
* Site of the station and possible depot in Creigiau itself as the initial terminus of the line

If there is no compulsory purchase of the houses in Kirton Close that were built on the old track bed (where the Waterhall branch came off the City Line) then there can realistically be no railway out on the NW Corridor.

I think you can avoid Kirton Close and also gain the benefit of serving Danescourt station by moving the junction further up by coming off the main line near the old Llandaff Loop viaduct and taking a strip off the school playing fields and the little triangular park (follow the line of pylons) to reach Plasdwr.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.co.uk

Then you'd run on the street or in the verge through Rhodfa Plasdwr and rejoin the old trackbed.

 

[edwin_m]

Joining the two old track beds together to route the line under the M4 at Cardiff West services will be an engineering challenge but it has to happen for two simple reasons:

1. The old Waterhall branch alignment was severed by the M4 and would need at least two bridges (one over the M4 and one over the A4119) to get close to Creigiau - adding millions to the costs
2. There is already a wide tunnel under the M4 for Heol Sant-Y-Nyll so why not use it with a small on street section?

and
3. This allows the route to pass through the new housing at Capel Llanilltern just north of the services.

 

[Envoy]

I was looking around on Google Maps and noticed there's a housing area being built at Capel Llanilltern (just north of the A4232-M4 junction, and south of Creigau). It straddles the old Creigau railway, but looks like there is provision for a rail line between the two halves of the estate.

Would be nice if that can be continued via Rhiwsaeson to Llantrisant/Cross-inn, or via Efail Isaf and Tonteg ... but that's deep into crayonista territory.

Part of the protected route for a Metro line out from the City Line just north of Fairwater station to Cregiau and possibly beyond. This - along with the now being built phase 1 linking the Bay Line with Cardiff Central station, is the reason why tram-trains (Class 398) have been chosen. Of course, whether or not that is a wise decision for the Treherbert, Aberdare & Merthyr Lines remains to be seen.

Future extensions for the Metro are being discussed here:> https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/south-wales-metro-future.258538/page-9

 

[ClackityClack]

It would be great to get a line out to the royal Glamorgan, the section of Ely valley railway behind the hospital would make a great stop to reduce congestion at the site.

 

[Envoy]

I think you can avoid Kirton Close and also gain the benefit of serving Danescourt station by moving the junction further up by coming off the main line near the old Llandaff Loop viaduct and taking a strip off the school playing fields and the little triangular park (follow the line of pylons) to reach Plasdwr.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.co.uk

Then you'd run on the street or in the verge through Rhodfa Plasdwr and rejoin the old trackbed.

I don’t think that is viable as you would have a steep gradient up from the City Line to the school playing field - which they would not want to lose - plus the fact that it is a longer route than re-building on the alignment of the former railway that comes off the City Line just north of Fairwater station. Much new 'Plasdwr' housing has already been built by Llantrisant Road.

They should certainly be considering now where stations will be located if/when such a new line is built and allow space for car parking. This is all the more important for those travelling from outlying villages such as Peterson-super-Ely and St.Brides- super-Ely who will want to drive to their nearest Metro railhead - which as present is Fairwater. (No way will they use the 1 bus every 2 hours from these villages - even the hourly Cardiff Bus service from St.Fagans Museum ceases at 3pm).

The Local Development Plan devised by Cardiff Council in cahoots with the Welsh Government is turning out to be a disaster for NW Cardiff. Massive traffic jams now ram Fairwater, Llandaff and Radyr whilst St.Fagans is jammed with north-south traffic. Much of this traffic would have gone onto the M4 and A4232 if a proper connection been made with J33 and the pathetic interchange had loops instead of an elevated roundabout with traffic lights. Anyway, they refused to do this as it would increase the use of cars. So, here we are with increasing population imposed on the old road network - including A4119 through Groes Faen - and no Metro in this area.

 

[Cardiff123]

Plaid Cymru have published their manifesto and their wish list / ambitions for the rail network in Wales.
These of course are all dependant on the next Welsh Government getting the funding from Westminister, as rail infrastructure is not devolved.

Commitments for south Wales include:

• Better and more frequent everyday services in South East Wales, including increasing service frequencies to 4 trains per hour to and from Cardiff to the Heads of the Valleys via Pontypridd and Caerphilly, and 2 trains per hour on the Maesteg branch and the Vale of Glamorgan Line beyond Barry.
• Cardiff Crossrail Phase 2 – including enabling 4 trains per hour on the Cardiff City and Coryton Lines, electrification and tram-trains for Penarth, Station Link and additional stations.
• Ongoing development on the South Wales Main Line, including phased electrification and new services with reduced journey times between Carmarthen and London.
• Advance plans to complete Cardiff Crossrail and for further expansion of the Metro in South East Wales.
• Bring forward plans for Swansea Bay and West Wales Metro Phase 1 – making the Metro tangible with named rail interventions (on service frequency, line-speed and stations) that will improve everyday commuting and access to services in South West Wales.

Plaid's full list of ambitions for rail can be found here:

Rail

www.partyof.wales

 

[CapitalStar378]

Plaid Cymru have published their manifesto and their wish list / ambitions for the rail network in Wales.
These of course are all dependant on the next Welsh Government getting the funding from Westminister, as rail infrastructure is not devolved.

Commitments for south Wales include:


Plaid's full list of ambitions for rail can be found here:

Rail

www.partyof.wales

Good to see that there is an intention to continue the current plans by Plaid, but there's nothing new being stated there.

 

[Cardiff123]

Good to see that there is an intention to continue the current plans by Plaid, but there's nothing new being stated there.

2tph on the VoG line, Barry to Bridgend is a new commitment, as that's been indefinitely dropped by TfW and Welsh Government.
Electrification and tram-trains to Penarth is new as well.
But most of it was in TfW's recent ambitions report.

If rail infrastructure through NR/GBR was devolved to Welsh Government, as NR is in Scotland, these could be definite commitments rather than just ambitions dependent on agreement and funding from Westminster.

 

[Envoy]

Goodness knows why the VOG Coast Line has only 1 train per hour - especially as it serves the Welsh Government owned Airport via the short shuttle bus link from Rhoose station? The train and this shuttle bus in by far the most efficient way of getting to/from the airport and central Cardiff. The hourly First Bus 304 takes 1 hour 30 minutes to do the trip via a winding route - see map red route:> https://www.firstbus.co.uk/sites/default/files/public/maps/Cardiff-and-the-Vale-network-map.pdf

Cardiff and the Vale Network Map

Note that the map only shows First Cymru Bus Routes. The Airport shuttle bus to Rhoose station is operated by Adventure.

Goodness knows what foreigners make of it when they land at Cardiff Airport? (The train also provides a fast link to/from Bridgend for mainline services to Swansea & south west Wales.

 

[John R]

Goodness knows why the VOG Coast Line has only 1 train per hour - especially as it serves the Welsh Government owned Airport via the short shuttle bus link from Rhoose station? The train and this shuttle bus in by far the most efficient way of getting to/from the airport and central Cardiff. The hourly First Bus 304 takes 1 hour 30 minutes to do the trip via a winding route - see map red route:> https://www.firstbus.co.uk/sites/default/files/public/maps/Cardiff-and-the-Vale-network-map.pdf

Note that the map only shows First Cymru Bus Routes. The Airport shuttle bus to Rhoose station is operated by Adventure.

Goodness knows what foreigners make of it when they land at Cardiff Airport? (The train also provides a fast link to/from Bridgend for mainline services to Swansea & south west Wales.

I suspect the proportion of traffic to Cardiff which is people from overseas visiting Wales/the U.K. is relatively low.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Penarth getting electrification reminds me of the time I walked the old rail route beyond Penarth staion out into the countryside. Houses have been built near the old route on a minor road along it. The option of tram trains would make re-opening feasible. I think the roads are Birch Lane, Rowan Close and maybe Sully Terrace.

Is it likely that Penarth could gain an extension Southwards perhaps allowing connection for travellers from West Penarth a better road route to the line (B4267 near Birch Lane) ?.
Arguably walkable as well.

I also wonder if the existing Cogan station could be moved along the line towards Cardiff so it is before the line to Penarth branches off. There is space for a station BUT I am not sure about parking and road access. Visiting Penarth and staying down by the Ely around Penarth Marina it is noticeable how much easier Cogan station is to walk to so a more frequent service would make that much more attractive for people walking from NE Penarth (below the steep hill up to the existing stations) and also from Cogan.

 

[CapitalStar378]

There was an original aspiration to extend to Lower Penarth, assume that's no longer planned. It would be a NR project to electrify to Penarth, so if the funding can be found, should be simple enough. Why not do to Barry as well if this was to happen?

Transport to the airport is a joke, I remember many years ago there was talk of a spur off the line to an airport station, maybe if that had happened the airport would be on a more successful trajectory now. Bare minimum there should be an airport express bus which doesn't take 90 minutes, even if it was timed to meet arrivals initially.

Does anyone know what the current issue with 2tph on the VoG line is?

 

[John R]

No infrastructure issues as far as I am aware. Just the cost of providing the additional service I believe.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Apr 2026 ==

There was an original aspiration to extend to Lower Penarth, assume that's no longer planned.

AIUI the locals were dead against it, so unsurprisingly it never got very far as an idea. I mean, why spend public money on a scheme that people were violently opposed to when you can just go and spend it where it might be appreciated. Whether a tram running on electric would get a more receptive response I am not sure, but I suspect the attitude might be "well you had your chance..."