South Pennines Day Ranger

[table38]

Nowhere in my last post did I say legal precedent. However, if the person who was challenged last year can supply the reply they received from XC, then I would certainly use this if they tried to pull me up on it.

Sure, but maybe it's not necessarily an enduring situation if they chose to change the map or the conditions on the web site.

For example, work change our expenses policy at the drop of a hat so you have to check the intranet before you incur the expense, (and probably print it off) or all bets are off!

I've nearly always taken the map with me when I get a ranger as it avoids any potential misunderstandings, especially when the ranger is printed on standard ticket stock and doesn't come with a fancy scratch and sniff map like Merseyrail.

 

[142094]

I've nearly always taken the map with me when I get a ranger as it avoids any potential misunderstandings, especially when the ranger is printed on standard ticket stock and doesn't come with a fancy scratch and sniff map like Merseyrail.

Problem is when the misunderstandings happen on the other side (i.e. staff/railway). It would have been much better for Northern to have either a full map showing the validity, and also specifying which TOCs it is valid on. On a different Rover there were 'issues' over whether it was valid on GC (most of the Northern rovers now say 'Valid on all services except GC' or words to that effect), with some GC staff accepting it and others not.

To be fair to Northern I do applaud the fact that they have brought these rovers out, which are very good value. Other companies would have just been content to not offer these products.

 

[IanD]

And the South Pennines Day ranger is much better now than it was 3 or so years ago when I got one. Then it was not valid between Wakefield/Bradford and Leeds, Sheffield to Manchester via Hope or indeed any of the services which are now available which use Manchester Piccadilly (had to jump off at Stalybridge if travelling TPE from Huddersfield to Manchester). And when these were all added, it only went up by a small amount considering the lines covered had increased by about 100%.

 

[nedchester]

That's just it - it was Customer Relations who I imagine consulted with the revenue department first! Difficult to argue with.......

As the person who was excessed by an AXC conductor and wrote to AXC to complain I always ensure that I carry my letter of apology from them when using the South Pennine Day Ranger. A friend of mine who was also excessed also got a similar letter of apology.

If you look at the map on the Northern Site:

http://www.northernrail.org/pdfs/rangers-rovers-maps/northwest/SouthPenninesDayRanger.pdf

there is no reason for a passenger to realise that a train that leaves Sheffield and then is next stop Wakefield Westgate should not realise that the train goes via a different route than that shown on the map. Also in retail if there is any doubt then the customer is favoured.

 

[34D]

As the person who was excessed by an AXC conductor and wrote to AXC to complain I always ensure that I carry my letter of apology from them when using the South Pennine Day Ranger. A friend of mine who was also excessed also got a similar letter of apology.

If you look at the map on the Northern Site:

http://www.northernrail.org/pdfs/rangers-rovers-maps/northwest/SouthPenninesDayRanger.pdf

there is no reason for a passenger to realise that a train that leaves Sheffield and then is next stop Wakefield Westgate should not realise that the train goes via a different route than that shown on the map. Also in retail if there is any doubt then the customer is favoured.

This is a fair point. I think we as railway people (whether enthusiast or career) know that they have excluded via Moorthorpe, but Joe public can't be expected to know the route of the XC service.

Out of interest, if we consider the routes around the edge of that map as the boundary, is the line from Westgate to the viaduct the only bit of line within the boundary that isn't valid?

Strikes me that the simplest way to show that via Moorthorpe isn't valid would be to extend validity to Westgate-Sandal & Agbrigg. Negligible use would be made of it, however the map would be clearly obvious that travel south of there isn't permitted.

Unless of course anyone wants to send the XC letter to Northern and ask if they'll amend the map to show the extra validity?

 

[Solent&Wessex]

This is a fair point. I think we as railway people (whether enthusiast or career) know that they have excluded via Moorthorpe, but Joe public can't be expected to know the route of the XC service.

The same could be said for lots of tickets. If in doubt - ask. The map shows that is only valid via Barnsley. A simple "Does this train go via / stop at Barnsley?" query should suffice.

There are some flows in the North West which are routed "Via Lancaster" - how are passengers meant to know if the train goes that way? Not all trains stop there.

I am at Bolton, using a East Lancashire Day Ranger. I want to go to Preston. I see a train going to Preston. How do I know which way it goes? I am an ordinary member of the public with no railway knowledge - How do I know whether it goes via Blackburn or not? For all I know some trains might not stop there - indeed they don't - some trains run Bolton to Preston with only 1 stop at Chorley, and some run non stop. How am I meant to know which route it takes?

Some trains run from Manchester to London Euston and run non-stop after Stockport. Can I use a ticket marked Route "Via Chesterfield"? As a member of the public how am I meant to know which way the train goes once it leaves Stockport?

 

[Deerfold]

The same could be said for lots of tickets. If in doubt - ask. The map shows that is only valid via Barnsley. A simple "Does this train go via / stop at Barnsley?" query should suffice.

But why would someone know to ask that question from that map? There's only one route between Sheffield and Leeds shown. The train they're getting only stops at stations on the map. I know there's another route but I'm local.

There are some flows in the North West which are routed "Via Lancaster" - how are passengers meant to know if the train goes that way? Not all trains stop there.

And that makes it clear that there must be an alternative way to do the journey...

 

[Eeveevolve]

I never even knew this ticket existed. I normally take firstborn out on the trains using my WYMetrocard, but now I know I can show him the sights of South Yorkshire and *Shudder* Lancashire, this is something I am going to have to get. And £20.50 is very reasonable. (Firstborn is still 4 until August too XD)

 

[LexyBoy]

(Firstborn is still 4 until August too XD)

Family & Friends Railcard will save you money even now; moreso when your son turns 5. You (& up to 3 other adults) can benefit from the discount even if the only child is under 5, provided you buy them a ticket. Adult+Child with F&F would be 18.70 for the SPDR for example.

 

[Eeveevolve]

Thankyou for that. Random day trips are greatly helped with OH being the daughter of a Northern Worker so free travel, and my annual WYCard makes it very cheap days out. All Iv paid for is a ticket from Denby Dale to MeadowHell. 18.70 to go further afield is very very reasonable.

Iv never seen an advert for any of these tickets, other than googling the SPDR and nat rail enquiries have a page on them all. Do they not want people to use them? IIRC a return from Leeds to Manchester is £17+ itself.

 

[142094]

Iv never seen an advert for any of these tickets, other than googling the SPDR and nat rail enquiries have a page on them all. Do they not want people to use them? IIRC a return from Leeds to Manchester is £17+ itself.

Most, if not all stations that Northern serve will have leaflets and posters advertising them, in fact I'd say that Northern are probably one of the better TOCs for advertising rovers and rangers.

 

[Lampshade]

Some trains run from Manchester to London Euston and run non-stop after Stockport. Can I use a ticket marked Route "Via Chesterfield"? As a member of the public how am I meant to know which way the train goes once it leaves Stockport?

If you've actually requested a Route Chesterfield ticket the chances are you know what you're doing, otherwise people would play it safe and get an Any Permitted.








In theory

 

[Solent&Wessex]

If you've actually requested a Route Chesterfield ticket the chances are you know what you're doing, otherwise people would play it safe and get an Any Permitted.








In theory

If you actually know about the South Pennines Day Ranger, and have asked to buy it, the chances are you know what you're doing and where it is valid.

 

[Deerfold]

If you actually know about the South Pennines Day Ranger, and have asked to buy it, the chances are you know what you're doing and where it is valid.

The Ranger is advertised in readily available leaflets and if you look through the "offers" section of National Rail. The availability of "Route Chesterfield" tickets isn't as well advertised.

I think my point above stands about local knowledge - no-one seems to have refuted it. I'm not arguing the ticket should be valid, only that it would be easy for a non-expert passenger to be confused so any non-validity on XC should be noted in the leaflet/website.

 

[158757]

I too have had this ticket accepted on XC Sheffield-Wakefield Westgate several times, one guard even rung his control who said it was valid. Enthusiasts will know that there is a different route, but your average normal I doubt would. As far as I am concerned, it is not made clear that it is not permitted on XC, the NRE page even states XC in the list of valid TOC's.

In KWVR45's example, Chesterfield is much further away than Moorthorpe, and involves a lengthy noticeable diversion. As for the East Lancs day ranger, AFAIK there are no non-stop trains Bolton-Preston which makes it clear. It is not difficult for the TOC to put on a webpage or in a leaflet "not valid on XC services between WKF-SHF" just as they do "not valid on GC services". I bet if you stood on Wakefield station 5 minutes before a Crosscountry service was due in and asked the people waiting to board if the train went via Barnsley or Moorthorpe, about 5% would know. If we are to take maps literally, then according to Metro's rail map GC services reverse at Wakefield Kirkgate, and HUD-WKF services do not!!