South Eastern

[benny27]

I was caught this morning with a London Bridge to Cannon Street short journey ticket. The revenue officer took all of my details down and said that South Eastern would be in contact.

I have probably done this about 18 times over 5 months, and more through laziness and forgetting to get a ticket when getting on the train (due to the station I get on not having barriers).

I really can’t afford to get a criminal record or a prosecution for this as I will lose my livelihood. Does anyone know what the likely outcome will be? Will I be able to pay back the journeys?

I feel like such a fool and will not ever be making the mistake again.

 

[John R]

When you deal with SouthEastern you will need to be completely honest with them, and to do that, you need to be honest with yourself. You don't buy a short ticket 18 times out of laziness and forgetting to get a ticket before boarding - you do it because you know you are committing fare evasion.

SouthEastern will write to you in due course, and provided you are cooperative, honest, very apologetic, and promise not to do it again then there's a good chance that they will offer you an out of court settlement. That won't be cheap (where do you travel from - we can give you a rough idea of how much if we know). They are likely to review your account and want recompense for every time you have done it, based on Anytime Single fares for each journey.

When you get a letter we can give more tailored advice based on what it says if you post it here with any identifying details removed.

In the meantime, make sure you buy a ticket every time before you set foot on a train, as the moment you do so you commit a further offence, assuming there are ticket purchasing facilities at your home station.

 

[superkopite]

I have probably done this about 18 times over 5 months, and more through laziness and forgetting to get a ticket when getting on the train

If this were the case, you would have bought a ticket from High Brooms to Cannon Street when you had realised your error.

 

[benny27]

When you deal with SouthEastern you will need to be completely honest with them, and to do that, you need to be honest with yourself. You don't buy a short ticket 18 times out of laziness and forgetting to get a ticket before boarding - you do it because you know you are committing fare evasion.

SouthEastern will write to you in due course, and provided you are cooperative, honest, very apologetic, and promise not to do it again then there's a good chance that they will offer you an out of court settlement. That won't be cheap (where do you travel from - we can give you a rough idea of how much if we know). They are likely to review your account and want recompense for every time you have done it, based on Anytime Single fares for each journey.

When you get a letter we can give more tailored advice based on what it says if you post it here with any identifying details removed.

In the meantime, make sure you buy a ticket every time before you set foot on a train, as the moment you do so you commit a further offence, assuming there are ticket purchasing facilities at your home station.

Thanks for your message. From high brooms?

 

[John R]

So an Anytime single is £22.90, thus for every day you have done this expect to pay around £46, together with an admin fee of around £150. You’ll have to pay it promptly too, if you want to avoid prosecution.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks for your message. From high brooms?

You say in your location 'High Brooms' - if it was another station where you commence your journey calculate the Anytime Single Fare from that station. They may want to you to explain if it is not a station in the vicinity of your postal address.

If you tell them you forget to buy a ticket - but forget that on a regular basis - they are not going to believe you I'm afraid, so I wouldn't use that as your justification. They have seen it all before and if you spin them stuff like that they are going to be less predisposed to agree to avoid court. Don't forget they have you over a barrel now. You say that your livelihood is at stake. If that's the case then full honesty is the way to go.

 

[benny27]

I just need to put my hands up and say I messed up, over the last 2-3 months. I’m honestly mortified and gutted about the whole situation. I know there’s no real justification, but what kind of justification would be useful in this situation?

What would I need to include in the letter to avoid court and have an out of court settlement?

 

[WesternLancer]

I just need to put my hands up and say I messed up, over the last 2-3 months. I’m honestly mortified and gutted about the whole situation. I know there’s no real justification, but what kind of justification would be useful in this situation?

What would I need to include in the letter to avoid court and have an out of court settlement?

see some other threads with examples of letters that fit the advice usually given on here about how to do that.

Basically you can't justify it - you've been evading fares deliberately - so don't try to in what you say to them. You need to focus on apologising, and convincing them you have stopped doing it and won't re start doing it, and offer to pay what you owe. That's the route to getting the settlement.

 

[John R]

I just need to put my hands up and say I messed up, over the last 2-3 months. I’m honestly mortified and gutted about the whole situation. I know there’s no real justification, but what kind of justification would be useful in this situation?

There isn’t any, and it will just sound as though you are making excuses for your behaviour.

 

[greyman42]

I really can’t afford to get a criminal record or a prosecution for this as I will lose my livelihood.

A lot of people think this to be the case, but it is not always.

 

[Hadders]

There's not much to add to what has already been said but you might want to describe what has happened as a serious error of judgement.

As for what to put in your reply to Southeastern's letter my normal advice is to mention:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

When the letter from Southeastern arrives, post a copy of it in this thread along with a copy of your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you.

 

[benny27]

There isn’t any, and it will just sound as though you are making excuses for your behavi

There's not much to add to what has already been said but you might want to describe what has happened as a serious error of judgement.

As for what to put in your reply to Southeastern's letter my normal advice is to mention:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

When the letter from Southeastern arrives, post a copy of it in this thread along with a copy of your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you.

I will of course send a draft of my letter in here once the southeastern letter arrives. How long are they tending to take to arrive? Also if I send a letter response to it and south eastern don’t offer a settlement, is it too late to then engage a solicitor to try the same? As I really don’t want this to go to court.

 

[John R]

We've seen a few cases where a settlement has been refused, but subsequent intervention by a solicitor has worked. It's fairly rare for them not to offer one though if this is this is the first time you've come to your attention, and there are no aggravating circumstances (such as abuse of staff).

 

[benny27]

Edit

 

[WesternLancer]

Please see my below draft. Is that okay to send? It hasn’t asked about any extra times so should I address?

Dear Sir/madam,



I writing in response to your letter that was received on 21st November regarding a fare evasion incident at London Cannon Street on the 6th November 2024. At the time when speaking to the revenue officer, I provided an honest account and admitted that I had not paid the full fare for my journey.



I would like to begin by saying just how sorry I am for my actions and to provide my sincere apologies and genuine regret. I now understand the financial impact of my actions towards South Eastern. I’m hugely embarrassed about my actions and the situation that has now unfold. What happened was a serious error of judgement on my part and I would embrace any opportunity to both put right this situation now and going forward.



I wondered if there might be an opportunity to settle this matter without court action. I’m fully willing to co-operate as well as pay the cost of the fare avoided plus the administrative costs of South Eastern in dealing with the matter.



I realise how poor my attitude was and I’m looking to make amends for my actions going forward. Whilst this can’t undo the past discrepancies, I really do hope you understand just how embarrassed about the situation I am and how truly sorry I am about my actions. I now understand the full implications of my digressions and do not want to ever put myself in this situation ever again.



I appreciate your consideration on this matter.



Yours faithfully

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Nov 2024 ==

If anyone can help on this I will be forever grateful! Would like to try and post today if u can to try and get this all resolved.

One comment I would make would be to move this section "I wondered if there might be an opportunity to settle this matter without court action. I’m fully willing to co-operate as well as pay the cost of the fare avoided plus the administrative costs of South Eastern in dealing with the matter."

to being your last but one bit (I closer to the end but before "I appreciate"

Because getting a settlement is your key 'ask'

My basis for this is because when I was in a job that involved reading lots of correspondence from the public the key thing you do is read sections that
a) tell you what this is about (1st sentences)
and
b) what does this person want me to do (last sentences)

Then if it looks like you need to know more you read the middle of the letter more carefully

So make it easy for the reader to know what you want them to do - which in this case is to allow you to settle it out of court.

- also include your case ref number - assuming there is one - at the start of the letter,

ie Dear Sir / Madam

Ref: (insert case ref)

I am writing in response.....

 

[benny27]

Thanks, should I mention the other instances or not? It doesn’t seem to say in their letter.

 

[30907]

1. I would cut para #4 altogether as it largely duplicates #2 and you thus comply with WesternLancer's suggestion.
BTW you haven't "digressed" (wandered off topic) but "transgressed" (overstepped the boundary)

2. As they only mention one occasion, you needn't mention the others specifically.

 

[Hadders]

I think the amended letter is ok to send. They don't ask about other instances so there's no need to incriminate yourself but be aware that they could contact you about other occasions in the future.

 

[benny27]

Thanks all, I really appreciate all your help on this. To say it’s been a stressful period is an understatement! It’s nice to know that there’s good people out there even when the circumstances are pretty damming. Good people do make mistakes without thinking too far about the consequences

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Dec 2024 ==

I recieved an out of court settlement for £2,425. I was emailed by them within 3 days of receiving my letter, which seems it was actioned very quickly. Thanks all for your help.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks all, I really appreciate all your help on this. To say it’s been a stressful period is an understatement! It’s nice to know that there’s good people out there even when the circumstances are pretty damming. Good people do make mistakes without thinking too far about the consequences

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Dec 2024 ==

I recieved an out of court settlement for £2,425. I was emailed by them within 3 days of receiving my letter, which seems it was actioned very quickly. Thanks all for your help.

Thanks for posting the update - it's quite a large sum so I think helpful for other people to see in future that even substantial sums evaded can be resolved by settlement, for people who are most anxious about that sort of thing.

Sounds like it must have been somewhat more than the original estimate of occasions you put in your original post.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Thanks all, I really appreciate all your help on this. To say it’s been a stressful period is an understatement! It’s nice to know that there’s good people out there even when the circumstances are pretty damming. Good people do make mistakes without thinking too far about the consequences

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Dec 2024 ==

I recieved an out of court settlement for £2,425. I was emailed by them within 3 days of receiving my letter, which seems it was actioned very quickly. Thanks all for your help.

Thanks for letting us know. Do you have a breakdown of how the settlement was calculated (especially the type of fare they used for their sums, whether anything previously paid was taken into account) and if so would you be happy to share it? It would be useful to know as it helps build our knowledge base for advising others in the future

 

[CC160801]

I was caught this morning with a London Bridge to Cannon Street short journey ticket. The revenue officer took all of my details down and said that South Eastern would be in contact.

I have probably done this about 18 times over 5 months, and more through laziness and forgetting to get a ticket when getting on the train (due to the station I get on not having barriers).

I really can’t afford to get a criminal record or a prosecution for this as I will lose my livelihood. Does anyone know what the likely outcome will be? Will I be able to pay back the journeys?

I feel like such a fool and will not ever be making the mistake again.

I am also in the same boat.

I was caught this morning with a London Bridge to Cannon Street short journey ticket. The revenue officer took all of my details down and said that South Eastern would be in contact.

I have probably done this about 18 times over 5 months, and more through laziness and forgetting to get a ticket when getting on the train (due to the station I get on not having barriers).

I really can’t afford to get a criminal record or a prosecution for this as I will lose my livelihood. Does anyone know what the likely outcome will be? Will I be able to pay back the journeys?

I feel like such a fool and will not ever be making the mistake again.

I tried to use an off peak return ticket before 10am (I didn’t know this wasn’t allowed because it wasn’t stated anywhere on the ticket) I got stopped at the barriers at St Pancras today and they said South Eastern would be in touch. Is there a maximum of fine they can issue? Will they look through my Trainline account?
I honestly don’t know how rail companies can justify the prices of their tickets, it is absolutely disgusting considering the cost of living crisis and public transport should be accessible for everyone, the services they provide onboard are inadequate and no where near worth the price they charge to travel.
I am worried that the fine will be extortionate as I have had 1 fine before.
Any advice? Thanks.

 

[yorkie]

@CC160801 please create a thread of your own. Your issue is a separate matter, not directly related.

This thread is to discuss the matter pertaining to benny27 exclusively; any replies to this thread must be related to that case only please.

@benny27 is there any update to your case?

 

[aesop]

Benny27, out of interest, did you mention past discretions? The settlement seems high so was wondering how it was made up?

 

[30907]

Benny27, out of interest, did you mention past discretions? The settlement seems high so was wondering how it was made up?

Welcome. I think it's fairly clear that they have charged for a significant number of journeys.

However, please start your own thread if you want advice - the poster hasn't visited for the last 3 months anyway

 

[LuPi]

REading this - similar to my son - they estimated 150 trips and had been short-fared and charged £2953.04 but with no explanation at all. This is a much higher number than the trips he actually dodged, so I don't know how they picked their fine. I'm about to go through his entire history to see if there's any reasoning.

 

[WesternLancer]

REading this - similar to my son - they estimated 150 trips and had been short-fared and charged £2953.04 but with no explanation at all. This is a much higher number than the trips he actually dodged, so I don't know how they picked their fine. I'm about to go through his entire history to see if there's any reasoning.

You need to be aware of the fares structure to do this accurately. The fare likely to be used is the punitively expensive Anytime Single fare. But that is a fare, all other fares are in some way or another essentially discounted fares.

 

[SuspectUsual]

What kind of logic ends up with a figure ending in .04? I thought all fares were multiples of 5p?