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South Eastern - Railway Byelaw 18 with VALID Oyster

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RJ

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So I contacted the court and the lady I got put through gave me a minor heart attack - apparently they hadn't received my plea of not guilty!

But a few seconds later she said the case had been with withdrawn, so it doesn't really matter. Phew! A big thank you once again to everyone's assistance in this matter, it seriously is appreciated.

I haven't spoken with South Eastern about this yet, but I'll do that tomorrow - I'll sleep on it first as I'm a little cheesed off with them at the moment.

gray1404, I think I'll struggle to get any compensation out of them. Given they haven't even sent me an apology or even a notice they're not prosecuting, I think demanding money from them would be like getting blood out of a stone!

A big concern I have at the moment relates to their timings. It took them 4 weeks to send the first contact letter to me asking to explain what happened, then 2 weeks to get everything approved by the court and then 6 weeks to send the paperwork through to me! That totals up to 12 weeks, which is way past the 8 weeks that I can access my Oyster history for.

If I hadn't had the sense to download my Oyster history in advance, thereby proving my innocence, I'd likely have been found guilty from their "evidence" which wrongly claimed I was unable to provide a valid ticket.

Is it worth complaining to someone (South Eastern? TfL?) to ensure steps are put in place to stop that ever happening to someone else?

If you pester them enough they might offer you something. However, I wouldn't bother trying to get them to change their way of doing things - it's truly a waste of your time. I suggest you have a specific objective of what you want to get out of them, then work on achieving that if it's worth the hassle.
 
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DaveNewcastle

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A big concern I have at the moment relates to their timings. It took them 4 weeks to send the first contact letter to me asking to explain what happened, then 2 weeks to get everything approved by the court and then 6 weeks to send the paperwork through to me! That totals up to 12 weeks, which is way past the 8 weeks that I can access my Oyster history for.
Sadly that is quite typical of the pace at which legal proceedings work. I have endless admiration for colleagues who seem to be able to flit between multiple ongoing matters, each of which spans many months or years, and without having to refresh their memory with their notes at every switch.

Is it worth complaining to someone (South Eastern? TfL?) to ensure steps are put in place to stop that ever happening to someone else?
You could try your MP. Don't expect any outcome, but if the issues tie-in with something that is politically lively, or with many other constituents' concerns, then some review might just be commissioned. But I think that a review (which might later be abandoned from the front-line agenda) is all that you are likely to achieve.

A letter or email to 'Dr. B. Ching' at Private Eye is also worth a punt, especially if you can provide a number of examples of real losses or injustices from several passengers in the one message.

But when we put into the balance, on the one hand, your very real concern about a possible, but abandoned sense of injustice against on the other hand, the very real losses, deprivations and suffering (plus the public''s outrage at other real and imagined injustices) which are experienced by hundreds of thousands of UK citizens, then I hope you won't be too dissapointed if your concerns don't receive quite the attention that you feel that they should.
 
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MikeWh

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If I hadn't had the sense to download my Oyster history in advance, thereby proving my innocence, I'd likely have been found guilty from their "evidence" which wrongly claimed I was unable to provide a valid ticket.

Is it worth complaining to someone (South Eastern? TfL?) to ensure steps are put in place to stop that ever happening to someone else?

On your TfL online account you can request monthly or weekly journey history statements to be automatically emailed to you. I still have that set up for the kids zip cards, but my contactless history is available for a year anyway.
 

matt_world2004

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One thing you could try is shaming them on social media. Ask the why you are being prosecuted for having a touched in oyster card. On facebook.
 

DaveNewcastle

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One thing you could try is shaming them on social media. Ask the why you are being prosecuted for having a touched in oyster card. On facebook.
Or even, if I have read the thread correctly, "Ask the why you are NOT being prosecuted for having touched in oyster card".

But perhaps you don't think that the NOT is as significant as I do.
 

matt_world2004

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Or even, if I have read the thread correctly, "Ask the why you are NOT being prosecuted for having touched in oyster card".

But perhaps you don't think that the NOT is as significant as I do.

They still weamt through the motions of prosecuting causing stress and incovience to the op and need to be called out on it.
 

Wolfie

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Or even, if I have read the thread correctly, "Ask the why you are NOT being prosecuted for having touched in oyster card".

But perhaps you don't think that the NOT is as significant as I do.

Even if the prosecution has now been dropped SouthEastern and its ill-trained, inept and frankly all too often incompetent staff (at all levels, the HS1 sagas seen on here would suggest, up to senior management) caused the OP a significant amount of worry and nugatory effort. They should be made to pay a price, ideally financial but at the very least reputational (mind you this is SouthEastern so the only reputation they have is dire already!), for that.

Perhaps if every mistake caused by their failure to properly train staff hit a TOC directly in the pocket they might actually train staff properly!
 
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island

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What one is entitled to in a court of law will often compare unfavourably to what one feels entitled to, particularly with reference to a court of public opinion.
 

Wolfie

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What one is entitled to in a court of law will often compare unfavourably to what one feels entitled to, particularly with reference to a court of public opinion.

Sadly all too true...my day job is handling litigation for one part of HMG....
 

gray1404

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Did you follow it up with SE?

I think you should write a formal complaint now to them about the entire case and take it from there. The RPI needs disciplinary action taken against them and they should issue you with some compensation.

Make a formal complaint to them, I would!
 

island

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Did you follow it up with SE?

I think you should write a formal complaint now to them about the entire case and take it from there. The RPI needs disciplinary action taken against them and they should issue you with some compensation.

Make a formal complaint to them, I would!

It really isn't worthwhile.

Southeastern will not (and can not) inform you about any action it may or may not take against its employee. And some more clarity on what precise loss it has caused the OP would help.
 

Flamingo

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It really isn't worthwhile.

Southeastern will not (and can not) inform you about any action it may or may not take against its employee. And some more clarity on what precise loss it has caused the OP would help.

Shushhh....

The outrage bus is at full speed, don't distract the driver...
 

matt_world2004

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It really isn't worthwhile.

Southeastern will not (and can not) inform you about any action it may or may not take against its employee. And some more clarity on what precise loss it has caused the OP would help.

Doesn't mean that that the op shouldn't receive some financial restitution for the unnesescary stress this incident has caused.
 

bnm

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Shushhh....

The outrage bus is at full speed, don't distract the driver...

Shushhh... whisper about TOC incompetence quietly. We that work in the industry don't want a wider examination of the poor practices of some of our colleagues.

Carpet over there. Here's the brush. :roll:
 

Wolfie

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Shushhh... whisper about TOC incompetence quietly. We that work in the industry don't want a wider examination of the poor practices of some of our colleagues.

Carpet over there. Here's the brush. :roll:

..not to mention a system where if a passenger makes a mistake the full weight of the law can be applied, if a TOC makes a mistake (even if repeatedly, deliberately or as a consequence of a conscious decision not to bother properly training staff, and regardless of the inconvenience that causes the passenger) there is no come-back...

The day that normal fair-trading commercial legislation is fully applied to TOCs will be the day that the complacent and arrogant among both their staff and management get an almighty wake-up call - the sooner they are hammered financially the sooner they will learn!
 
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Hannes

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Thanks again everyone for all your help in this matter. Great to see so much knowledge in one place and a lot of varying viewpoints.

Just to confirm, all in the clear, all good.

In terms of followup, the vibe I'm getting is that SE deserve to get kicked into action, but realistically any effort I spend on this endeavour through the official channels will result in nowt. My best chance is shaming them on social media, but I don't think SE really care about their public image and I'd rather not get caught up in anything like that. They'd probably take me to court for libel!

I think I'm just going to have to accept the inconvenience and stress of it all and move on. I'll just boycott SE as much as possible, which is easy to do at the moment with all the chaos going on around London Bridge.
 

bnm

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Can't possibly be libel if you are keeping to the facts. I'd expend just a little more effort and post on their social media outlets.
 

furlong

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Read this document and consider under which categories some of the company's actions might be considered to have fallen and whether you wish to bring this to the attention of the ORR in case this was not an isolated incident.
 

HilversumNS

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the sooner they are hammered financially the sooner they will learn!
And the sooner unregulated fares are increased to avoid any negative impact on profits?

I've had some success when companies have badgered me by phone unnecessarily by sending them an email explaining why they should not call me, and that any further calls will indicate that they are engaging into a contract with me for business and will result in being billed for my time (I have my own Ltd company) at my standard day rate. How this would pan out in a court I have no idea, but they all seem to be scared enough to shut up.

I don't know if the OP could have used such a 'threat' early on in his correspondence with the SE.
 
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