South eastern prosecution

[Amr1234]

Hi all,

Back Story:

In august i got caught using a train ticket that didnt cover my journey and with a 16-17 year olds railcard even though i was 19 at the time. I got told most likely i would just have to pay a fine as this is my first offence so when the original letter came through I sent one back explaining I was deeply sorry but did not mention I would like for this to be settled out of court as i was not aware I should of done this at the time. I heard nothing back until this saturday just passed which is when i found out that they want to prosecute me through the court. I have now sent a letter back pleading for this to be settled out of court but I am extremely worried this will not happen or I wont get a reply back close enough to the court date which is on the end of this month. The company prosecuting me is Southeastern.

I genuinely am sorry for my actions and I know what I did was wrong but i really do not want a criminal record for this. I was wondering if anyone has any advice or if anyone knows how likely it is they will get back to me?

Thanks very much for any help in advance.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum.

This might sound like playing with words, but try not to worry too much - the punishment you will face will be a fine (plus court costs, plus prosecution costs, plus compensation). Unless you did something that you haven't told us about to make things much worse (something like punching the people from the railway) you will not go to prison.

But you may get a 'criminal record' - that is, you might have to tell some people about being convicted. It's possible that you won't (to explain something rather complicated quite quickly, if you are prosecuted under the railway byelaws, I understand this to be a 'non-recordable offence' which the DBS are not told about, and which for Rehabilitation of Offenders Act purposes is immediately spent) but in the worst likely case, you may have to tell potential employers, insurers and so on for a year: for some roles where you might be responsible for someone's personal wellbeing or their money (so things like being a teacher or a youth leader or a doctor or nurse or care worker, or a lawyer or a banker or an accountant) you may have to mention it for longer.

But even if you do have a 'criminal record' that you have to tell people about, you may well find that employers and so on don't worry too much. Fare-dodging once is one mistake - and most employers recognise that people make mistakes from time to time. It's if you keep repeating the mistake (or making other related mistakes like trying to hide a conviction) that really causes a problem. So although admitting to a criminal record is embarrassing, it may well not stop you getting a job or volunteering.

Having said all of which, if you can agree an out of court settlement, you definitely won't have a criminal record, and the out of court settlement will probably be cheaper than the court fine. You've already done the right thing writing to Southeastern again. Wait for their answer: they may be prepared to agree.

If they don't answer before you're due in court (or if they do answer and say 'no') you can still ask for an out of court settlement on the day of the hearing. To do that, you will need to get to court early: ask the court staff if they can point you towards whoever is prosecuting for Southeastern: then see if you can agree a settlement before the case is heard. You need to do this beforehand - once the case is being heard it's too late.

Southeastern don't have to let you have an out of court settlement - but asking politely, and making it clear that you won't fare-dodge again may just get them to let you have an out of court settlement this time.

 

[Amr1234]

Welcome to the forum.

This might sound like playing with words, but try not to worry too much - the punishment you will face will be a fine (plus court costs, plus prosecution costs, plus compensation). Unless you did something that you haven't told us about to make things much worse (something like punching the people from the railway) you will not go to prison.

But you may get a 'criminal record' - that is, you might have to tell some people about being convicted. It's possible that you won't (to explain something rather complicated quite quickly, if you are prosecuted under the railway byelaws, I understand this to be a 'non-recordable offence' which the DBS are not told about, and which for Rehabilitation of Offenders Act purposes is immediately spent) but in the worst likely case, you may have to tell potential employers, insurers and so on for a year: for some roles where you might be responsible for someone's personal wellbeing or their money (so things like being a teacher or a youth leader or a doctor or nurse or care worker, or a lawyer or a banker or an accountant) you may have to mention it for longer.

But even if you do have a 'criminal record' that you have to tell people about, you may well find that employers and so on don't worry too much. Fare-dodging once is one mistake - and most employers recognise that people make mistakes from time to time. It's if you keep repeating the mistake (or making other related mistakes like trying to hide a conviction) that really causes a problem. So although admitting to a criminal record is embarrassing, it may well not stop you getting a job or volunteering.

Having said all of which, if you can agree an out of court settlement, you definitely won't have a criminal record, and the out of court settlement will probably be cheaper than the court fine. You've already done the right thing writing to Southeastern again. Wait for their answer: they may be prepared to agree.

If they don't answer before you're due in court (or if they do answer and say 'no') you can still ask for an out of court settlement on the day of the hearing. To do that, you will need to get to court early: ask the court staff if they can point you towards whoever is prosecuting for Southeastern: then see if you can agree a settlement before the case is heard. You need to do this beforehand - once the case is being heard it's too late.

Southeastern don't have to let you have an out of court settlement - but asking politely, and making it clear that you won't fare-dodge again may just get them to let you have an out of court settlement this time.

Hi,

Thanks so much for your answer and knowledge it’s greatly appreciated.

Do you know if they contact your place of work if it is prosecuted through the court? I’m quite worried that I will lose my job.

 

[island]

You mention this took place last August – on what date. Has information been laid before the court? On what date was that? It should say on your paperwork, feel free to upload this blocking out any personal details.

The reason I ask is because there is a 6 month deadline (call it a statute of limitations if you like) for them to begin a prosecution and it's possible it may have been missed.

 

[Amr1234]

You mention this took place last August – on what date. Has information been laid before the court? On what date was that? It should say on your paperwork, feel free to upload this blocking out any personal details.

The reason I ask is because there is a 6 month deadline (call it a statute of limitations if you like) for them to begin a prosecution and it's possible it may have been missed.

It was the 11th of august that this took place. I couldn’t find the date it was laid out to the court. I’ve uploaded a picture if this is any help ?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hi,

Thanks so much for your answer and knowledge it’s greatly appreciated.

Do you know if they contact your place of work if it is prosecuted through the court? I’m quite worried that I will lose my job.

I can’t think of any reason why they should, unless there’s a need to collect the fine directly from your wages. So you can avoid that by paying the money to the court in line with any agreement you come to with them.

But it’s important to remember that being employed is a relationship of trust - that is, your employer has to believe that you are trustworthy enough to be able to do your job. Quite how trustworthy that is depends on what your job is, so you have to be more trustworthy if you’re handling other’s people money or business affairs (maybe being a lawyer or working in the City in finance, or looking after the till in a shop) or where you have responsibility for someone’s life (so things like personal care, or being a doctor or responsibility for children). That’s why you may have to disclose a conviction if you’re getting a new job - or if it’s a condition of your employment.

So to cut to the chase, I can’t suggest that (if you are convicted) you hide this from your employer. If when you started your job you were told that you must tell them about any convictions, then you need to do that. As I said in my earlier post, our experience is that most employers will accept one conviction for fare-dodging as being a mistake. But if you hide it from your employer, having agreed to tell them about any convictions, then it’s very likely that you will lose your job - not for the fare-dodging (a mistake) but for not being honest and trustworthy with your employer (a condition of your employment).

 

[Amr1234]

I can’t think of any reason why they should, unless there’s a need to collect the fine directly from your wages. So you can avoid that by paying the money to the court in line with any agreement you come to with them.

But it’s important to remember that being employed is a relationship of trust - that is, your employer has to believe that you are trustworthy enough to be able to do your job. Quite how trustworthy that is depends on what your job is, so you have to be more trustworthy if you’re handling other’s people money or business affairs (maybe being a lawyer or working in the City in finance, or looking after the till in a shop) or where you have responsibility for someone’s life (so things like personal care, or being a doctor or responsibility for children). That’s why you may have to disclose a conviction if you’re getting a new job - or if it’s a condition of your employment.

So to cut to the chase, I can’t suggest that (if you are convicted) you hide this from your employer. If when you started your job you were told that you must tell them about any convictions, then you need to do that. As I said in my earlier post, our experience is that most employers will accept one conviction for fare-dodging as being a mistake. But if you hide it from your employer, having agreed to tell them about any convictions, then it’s very likely that you will lose your job - not for the fare-dodging (a mistake) but for not being honest and trustworthy with your employer (a condition of your employment).

Yes I completely agree and would never not say anything, thanks very much for your replies

 

[30907]

Just to clarify: I'm afraid you have been told you are being prosecuted under the Regulation of Railways Act so (if convicted) you will get a record but it will be spent after a year, as per Fawkes Cat's first post.

 

[island]

It was the 11th of august that this took place. I couldn’t find the date it was laid out to the court. I’ve uploaded a picture if this is any help ?

It doesn't seem to say anything other than "today" and the date is blank.

Might I suggest calling Bexley Magistrates Court in the morning to ask what date the information was laid? If it was after 11 February, the information probably cannot be tried, which means the magistrates cannot take the case and you will get off.

If it was before then, we will have to discuss whether you can settle before the hearing and if so how.