South Eastern Kent Lines - unusual signals perpendicular to track

[Andrew S]

Hello.

I've seen a few signals that I've wondered about for a long time so thought I'd ask here. They look like normal 3 or 4 aspect colour light signals, but point sideways, ie at right angles to the direction of normal signals. There's one at the end of one of the platforms at Charing Cross station, and another couple just south of New Cross. I think there used to be one near St Johns too.

They're all mounted on signal gantries, and appear to be properly fitted with cables, so not just spare kit left around. I've never seen any of them lit.

Does anyone know what these are for?

 

[43066]

Hello.

I've seen a few signals that I've wondered about for a long time so thought I'd ask here. They look like normal 3 or 4 aspect colour light signals, but point sideways, ie at right angles to the direction of normal signals. There's one at the end of one of the platforms at Charing Cross station, and another couple just south of New Cross. I think there used to be one near St Johns too.

They're all mounted on signal gantries, and appear to be properly fitted with cables, so not just spare kit left around. I've never seen any of them lit.

Does anyone know what these are for?

Sounds like you’re describing co-acting signals, which repeat the signal aspect to drivers where the main signal is too close to the cab, or too awkwardly angled, to be easily viewable.

There’s one at Waterloo East at the country end of the down slow. I can’t say I was aware of any at Charing Cross or New Cross.

 

[Andrew S]

Sounds like you’re describing co-acting signals, which repeat the signal aspect to drivers where the main signal is too close to the cab, or too awkwardly angled, to be easily viewable.

No, they're not co-acting. They're in locations where trains wouldn't be stopped. The ones near New Cross are not actually at the station. They're quite high up too, so not visible to drivers I wouldn't think.

If I get a chance I'll try to get near enough to photograph them.

 

[DA1]

Hard to understand from the description but possibly SPAD indicators? Also wasn’t aware of them being at these locations.

Edit: looking below they just look like decommissioned signal heads.

 

[zwk500]

Is this what you mean? I've got no idea what it is for, unless it's just left over from the conversion to LED signals.

EDIT: Photo of Signal L233 on the Down Fast south of New Cross, next to Thornville Street.

 

[43066]

No, they're not co-acting. They're in locations where trains wouldn't be stopped. The ones near New Cross are not actually at the station. They're quite high up too, so not visible to drivers I wouldn't think.

If I get a chance I'll try to get near enough to photograph them.

Is this what you mean? I've got no idea what it is for, unless it's just left over from the conversion to LED signals.

EDIT: Photo of Signal L253 on the Down Fast south of New Cross, next to Thornville Street.

Glad you posted the above - Andrew S’s last description jogged my memory of this, which I have also wondered about! I can’t shed any more light other than, as you say, an old signal head which wasn’t removed, perhaps due to awkward access to the site.

@Bald Rick might be able to shed more light.

 

[Andrew S]

That's one of them, yes!

I've got a feeling they've been around for a long time.

 

[Efini92]

Hello.

I've seen a few signals that I've wondered about for a long time so thought I'd ask here. They look like normal 3 or 4 aspect colour light signals, but point sideways, ie at right angles to the direction of normal signals. There's one at the end of one of the platforms at Charing Cross station, and another couple just south of New Cross. I think there used to be one near St Johns too.

They're all mounted on signal gantries, and appear to be properly fitted with cables, so not just spare kit left around. I've never seen any of them lit.

Does anyone know what these are for?

The one at the end of the platform will be a co-acting signal. Nottingham has one on platform 2.
not sure about the ones on plain line though.

 

[Darandio]

Is this what you mean? I've got no idea what it is for, unless it's just left over from the conversion to LED signals.

That's what it looks like to me, seems it's just a like for like replacement aspect wise. I assume it's far easier to turn it around and clamp it to part of the gantry than get it out of there completely!

 

[Andrew S]

The one at the end of the platform will be a co-acting signal. Nottingham has one on platform 2.
not sure about the ones on plain line though.

No, they're not co-acting signals.

That's what it looks like to me, seems it's just a like for like replacement aspect wise. I assume it's far easier to turn it around and clamp it to part of the gantry than get it out of there completely!

That makes sense. I guess they are all in slightly difficult places to access.

 

[Efini92]

No, they're not co-acting signals.



That makes sense. I guess they are all in slightly difficult places to access.

how perplexing. If it’s not in use it should have an X on it.

 

[Bald Rick]

Old signal not recovered.

 

[westcoaster]

Normally left in situ for a while after conversion to a LED signal, incase of any issues it can be quickly swapped back over.

 

[43066]

Normally left in situ for a while after conversion to a LED signal, incase of any issues it can be quickly swapped back over.

In this case they have been left for several years. Most likely because the location concerned is confined and awkward to access.

 

[Andrew S]

how perplexing. If it’s not in use it should have an X on it.

Although they've been turned to not face the same way as an active signal, so presumably that suffices.

Old signal not recovered.

Thanks. That makes sense. It just seems an odd coincidence that there were a few on one route, and I've never seen any elsewhere.

 

[Bald Rick]

Thanks. That makes sense. It just seems an odd coincidence that there were a few on one route, and I've never seen any elsewhere.

It was all resignalled last year. Don’t know why they were left behind.