South Devon Bus War

[Rich McLean]

Reading the minutes of the Plymouth Customer panel one of the members mentioned this, 'Citybus will be doing a day rider to Tavistock for £3.50.'

How do First fares compare with this on that corridor?

Considering their normal day rider is £3.60 in Plymouth, not sure how long it will last

 

[plymothian]

Sure it's not £4.50 like the Ivybridge dayrider was at launch before it was absorbed into the Plymouth dayrider?

 

[Rich McLean]

More changes for CityBus

PH0000135/5 - PLYMOUTH CITYBUS LTD, MILEHOUSE, MILEHOUSE ROAD, PLYMOUTH, PL3 4AA

Variation Accepted: Operating between PLYMOUTH Royal Parade and DERRIFORD Hospital given service number 28 effective from 03-Nov-2013. To amend Route and Timetable.

PH0000135/8 - PLYMOUTH CITYBUS LTD, MILEHOUSE, MILEHOUSE ROAD, PLYMOUTH, PL3 4AA

Variation Accepted: Operating between TAMERTON FOLIOT and ROYAL PARADE given service number 42/42A/42B/42X effective from 03-Nov-2013. To amend Timetable.

PH0000135/53 - PLYMOUTH CITYBUS LTD, MILEHOUSE, MILEHOUSE ROAD, PLYMOUTH, PL3 4AA

Variation Accepted: Operating between PLYMOUTH Royal Parade and ESTOVER given service number 34 effective from 03-Nov-2013. To amend Timetable

PH0000135/76 - PLYMOUTH CITYBUS LTD, MILEHOUSE, MILEHOUSE ROAD, PLYMOUTH, PL3 4AA

Variation Accepted: Operating between ROYAL PARADE and DERRIFORD HOSPITAL given service number 29/29D effective from 03-Nov-2013. To amend Timetable.

PH0000135/78 - PLYMOUTH CITYBUS LTD, MILEHOUSE, MILEHOUSE ROAD, PLYMOUTH, PL3 4AA

Variation Accepted: Operating between PLYMOUTH ROYAL PARADE and HOLLY PARK given service number 43B/78 effective from 03-Nov-2013. To amend Timetable.

PH0000135/89 - PLYMOUTH CITYBUS LTD, MILEHOUSE, MILEHOUSE ROAD, PLYMOUTH, PL3 4AA

Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Mayflower Street and Mayflower Street given service number 31 effective from 03-Nov-2013.

Route passes to Target Travel under Plymouth City Council tender

PH0000135/91 - PLYMOUTH CITYBUS LTD, MILEHOUSE, MILEHOUSE ROAD, PLYMOUTH, PL3 4AA

Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Royal Parade and Saltash Passage given service number 13 effective from 03-Nov-2013.

Route passes to Target Travel under Plymouth City Council tender

PH0000135/130 - PLYMOUTH CITYBUS LTD, MILEHOUSE, MILEHOUSE ROAD, PLYMOUTH, PL3 4AA

Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Crownhill and DHS Boys given service number 104 effective from 03-Nov-2013.

PH0000135/131 - PLYMOUTH CITYBUS LTD, MILEHOUSE, MILEHOUSE ROAD, PLYMOUTH, PL3 4AA

Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Plympton, Steer Park and DHS Boys Plymouth given service number 109 effective from 03-Nov-2013

PH0000135/133 - PLYMOUTH CITYBUS LTD, MILEHOUSE, MILEHOUSE ROAD, PLYMOUTH, PL3 4AA

Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Plympton, Steer Park and DHS Girls, Outland Road given service number 115 effective from 03-Nov-2013.

PH0000135/135 - PLYMOUTH CITYBUS LTD, MILEHOUSE, MILEHOUSE ROAD, PLYMOUTH, PL3 4AA

Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Tamerton Foliot and Whitleigh given service number 142 effective from 03-Nov-2013.

PH0000135/146 - PLYMOUTH CITYBUS LTD, MILEHOUSE, MILEHOUSE ROAD, PLYMOUTH, PL3 4AA

Variation Accepted: Operating between ROYAL PARADE and DERRIFORD HOSPITAL given service number 27 effective from 03-Nov-2013. To amend Timetable

PH0000135/151 - PLYMOUTH CITYBUS LTD, MILEHOUSE, MILEHOUSE ROAD, PLYMOUTH, PL3 4AA

Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Plympton, Mudge Way
Finish Point: Plymouth, Notre Dame School
Via: Milehouse
Service Number: 103
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 03-NOV-2013
Other Details: Monday to Friday schooldays
PH0000135/152 - PLYMOUTH CITYBUS LTD, MILEHOUSE, MILEHOUSE ROAD, PLYMOUTH, PL3 4AA

Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Plymouth, Tamar Science Park
Finish Point: Langage, Eastern Wood Road
Via: Plymstock
Service Number: 14
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 03-NOV-2013
Other Details: Monday to Saturday except bank holidays
This is an odd one which is under Plymouth City Council tender. I assume it replaces the existing 14 operated by Target Travel but its anyones guess as to the full route!

 

[starrymarkb]

The new Gold Scanias are at Scania Exeter - interestingly they are on "YN" plates implying that they were originally planned for Yorkshire (SCSW tend to use Exeter "WA" with a handful of "WJ" plates)

 

[swifty]

They were ordered for Cambridgeshire, but diverted to Devon. They carry YN plates because most new buses are now registered en masse by the manufacturers, in this case Plaxton at Scarborough.

 

[Volvodart]

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Communities-cut-Plymouth-bus-routes-axed/story-19808328-detail/story.html

Communities cut off as Plymouth bus routes are axed

By Plymouth Herald.


Wednesday, September 18, 2013.

By REBECCA RICKS @RebeccaRicksTH

RESIDENTS say they will be "isolated" and "absolutely lost" when a series of changes to First bus routes come into force next month.

In total nine services will be changed, six routes withdrawn and two new services brought in.

But the director of First South West, Alex Carter, said the company had been "forced to make decisions we didn't want to make" as a result of increased competition and drops in passenger numbers.

Mr Carter told The Herald the business needed to make the changes in order to remain "sustainable" and provide a service to those living in Plymouth and South Devon.

He said the "majority" of their passengers would be affected by the change whether that's in alterations to the timetables, new services in their area or left without a bus service at all.

The withdrawal of the number 15 First bus route will leave those living in Mainstone with no access to a bus service in the immediate area.

Sylvia Puleston, aged 83, said she used the service four or five times a week from her home at Pattinson Court.

She said: "We can't believe it's happening, it's going to be such a big thing for people here who can't get about without the bus. There are some people who can manage the walk but it won't be for much longer.

"We feel we would be absolutely lost without it especially with the winter weather coming in."

Trina Hearn, a scheme manager at Pattinson Court, said: "It isn't just us it's the whole area that's affected. People are not going to be able to go anywhere and will be confined to the scheme or forced to rely on taxis and family members who work throughout the day.

"The government gave them a lovely concession of a free bus pass which gave them great freedom and in turn made such a wonderful difference to their lives, they can leave after 9.30am and go wherever they like but now we are not on the loop at all."

Ms Hearn said residents at Pattinson Court ranged in age from 55 to those in their 90s.

She added: "We would be happy with just an hourly service."

Mr Carter said he apologised to the residents in Mainstone who would be left with no other bus route.

"The Mainstone part of the route has been fairly light on usage and we haven't found it justifiable to keep it there.

"We apologise to the residents of Mainstone for the inconvenience they feel but in this harsh economic climate the numbers didn't support us on a financial basis.

"I can't offer any real glimmer of hope in terms of an alternative service but we have been operating with Plymouth City Council providing them with data of usage and putting staff on the buses to observe the overall usage."

Other services withdrawn include the number 5 (city to Mount Gould), number 6 (city to Staddiscombe), number 7 (city to Elburton) and the X80 and X81 buses between Plymouth and Torquay. First say that other alternative services may be available.

The changes take effect on October 27 and other affected services include: 2, 3, 3A, 4, 83, 84, 86, 93 and PR1.

Competitors CityBus also announced changes to their services this year which included amendments to the 40/41 services and the introduction of a new Torpoint connection.

Explaining the reasoning behind the service revamp, Mr Carter said increased competition has been a "catalyst".

"At the end of the day we have to take a hard look at what the business can sustain and what is the right service for the people of Plymouth and South Devon.

"The increased competitive activity has forced us to make decisions we didn't want to make, it has been a catalyst to sharpen up our product.

"It is also about saving money as well as generating more usage of buses. It's important we look after existing customers as best we can but also to encourage people to look at using the bus as an alternative to the car."

As a result the company will be bringing in a host of fare changes in a bid to encourage new bus users.

Some of the changes to the fares could include cheaper child tickets and the age range increased to options for pensioners travelling outside of the free bus pass timings.

Mr Carter added: "We are really looking forward to trying out some of these changes and see how they are received by our customers."

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/devon_cornwall/travel_news/news_initiatives/?item=13101&conf=0

Service changes in and around Plymouth, effective 27 October

Wednesday 18 September 2013

A number of changes are being made to the bus network in Plymouth as First seeks to strengthen its local business.


The changes - which see the creation of two new routes and some frequency improvements as well as some route adjustments and withdrawals - take effect on 27 October and affect the following services: 2, 3, 3A, 4, 5, 6, 7, 15, 83, 84, 86, 93, PR1, X80, X81. In addition Services 48 and 81/81A are being altered slightly from 2 November.

Talking about what is happening, Alex Carter, Director for First South West, says: "Over the past few months we have looked at our network in and around Plymouth assessing its performance and its overall competitive edge. The review has shown that some changes are needed to strengthen the business and so we are taking steps to implement these alterations from the end of October.

"We will be changing some existing routes and setting up some entirely new ones. Similarly well be looking at various things we can do to make using the bus easier, while also increasing the value for money for our customers get when using our services. This will include fare initiatives to support the changes being made, the detail of which we'll make public in the coming days and weeks.

"We understand that changes like these can be unsettling and that alterations to routes can have a real impact on our customers lives, affecting their own routines and schedules. Clearly some local people will need to look again at the local bus network, understanding how these alterations impact their ability to get to important destinations. In most cases though, people will find that alternatives do exist for them, and where we can assist our teams will help people find them.

"Over the next few weeks well be doing what we can to ensure that these changes are communicated as widely and effectively as possible. We will be using a variety of tools to do this including putting information on buses and on some billboards, door-dropping timetables to homes in parts of the city and hosting customer road show events."

New timetable information and an updated network map will be available online and in the travel shops very soon.

Specific changes, effective as of 27 October 2013

Service 2 (City Centre - Mount Batten): The frequency of buses on this route is being improved from the end of October. From this date buses will run every 10 minutes Monday - Saturday (compared to every 12 minutes at present) meaning customers will have more opportunities to travel. In addition to this the route that Service 2 buses take is being amended slightly. From the end of October buses between Plymstock Broadway and Pomphlett Roundabout will follow alternate routes every other journey, with one travelling via Pomphlett Gardens and the next travelling via Oreston. These changes mean that despite the loss of the old Service 6 (see details below), people travelling to and from Oreston will still have access to a bus every 20 minutes during the day Monday - Saturday. Similarly they will also regain an evening service from the end of October. Additionally, most journeys on Service 2 will continue from Royal Parade as Service 3, thus providing links from Plymstock to Devonport and St Budeaux

Service 3 (City Centre - St Budeaux): The frequency of buses on this route is being reduced slightly. From the end of October buses will run every 10 minutes Monday - Saturday. In addition to this the route is being adjusted with all Service 3 buses set to terminate at St Budeaux from this date. Every other Service 3 bus will, however, continue on from St Budeaux as a Service 3A bus - providing links to West Park, Honicknowle, Peverell and the City Centre (see details below). The changes to Service 3 mean that people wishing to travel to and from Barne Barton by bus will need to make alternative arrangements.

Service 3A (City Centre - St Budeaux): This new service will provide links between the city centre, Peverell, Honicknowle, West Park and St Budeaux while also giving people the opportunity to connect with Service 3 for onward journeys to Devonport and the City Centre. Buses will operate every 20 minutes during the daytime (Monday - Saturday).

Service 4 (City Centre - Keyham): The frequency of buses on this route is being reduced slightly. From the end of October buses will run every 20 minutes Monday - Saturday (compared to every 15 minutes at present). In addition the timetable on Sundays is being altered slightly. Customers are advised to check the new timetables carefully to ensure they understand what is happening.

Service 5 (City Centre - Mount Gould): We regret this route is being withdrawn from the end of October. People wishing to travel to and from Mount Gould will however find that alternative services do exist.

OLD Service 6 (City Centre - Staddiscombe): The existing Service 6 bus route is being withdrawn but a new Service 6 is being created at the same time (see details below). People who used the old service 6 will find that part of the previous route - that which runs between the city centre and Plymstock Broadway - will be covered by the revised Service 2 (see details above). People wishing to travel further into Staddiscombe will find that alternative services do exist.

NEW Service 6 (City Centre - Efford): A brand new Service 6 route is being created which will provide journeys between the City Centre, Lipson Vale and Efford. Running every 15 minutes during the day (Monday - Saturday) buses will follow the same route in and out of the city, travelling via North Hill, Lipson Vale, Torridge Way and Pike Road in both directions.

Service 7 (City Centre - Elburton): We regret that this route - which has under performed for a number of years - is being withdrawn from the end of October. People wishing to travel to and from Elburton, Plymstock and the City Centre will however still be able to use our improved Service 93 (Plymouth - Dartmouth) to make local journeys.

Service 15 (City Centre - Derriford - Rodborough / Woolwell): The route of this service is changing from the end of October to provide additional connections with Tavistock services travelling via Roborough and Woolwell. As a result of this change though Service 15 buses will no longer call at Estover or Mainstone from the 27 October.

The frequency of buses is also changing: from the end of October they'll run every 20 minutes Monday - Friday and every 30 minutes on Saturdays.

Additionally, on arrival in the City centre, most Monday to Friday journeys will continue as a Service 4. This means that customers wishing to travel from Roborough / Woolwell towards Keyham can do so relatively easily at these times - they simply board in Roborough / Woolwell, staying on the same vehicle in the City Centre, before being taken to Keyham on a Service 4 journey.

Service 83 (Plymouth - Yelverton -Tavistock): The timetable of this service is changing in October. Specifically the frequency of buses is being increased so that there is one bus every 20 minutes during the peak period (compared to every 30 minutes at present) In addition to this, journeys to and from Tavistock are being scheduled to connect with Service 15 arrivals and departures in Roborough. This will enable those people wishing to travel to or from Derriford and Mutley Plain to do so.

In addition to this some Service 83 journeys in the morning and evening will be extended to start and finish at Whitchurch - this change compensates for the loss of Service 84 (see details below) and means that commuters in this area will still be able to travel.

Service 84 (Plymouth - Derriford - Tavistock): In order to better match resources against the level of demand for services, this route is being withdrawn from 27 October. In its place changes are being made to Service 83 to add in extended journeys to and from Whitchurch in the morning, while connections between Service 83 and Service 15 are also being put in place.

Service 86 (Plymouth - Derriford - Tavistock): The route that Service 86 buses take around Derriford is changing. From the end of October buses will travel via Derriford Roundabout, Derriford Hospital, Plymbridge Road, Marjon's, Runway Road and the A386. In addition to this the timetable is being tweaked slightly: buses will continue to only operate during the Monday - Friday peak period.

Service 93 (Plymouth - Kingsbridge - Dartmouth): The timetable of this service is being amended to provide some additional short journeys running between Elburton (Elburton School) and the City Centre, to provide a bus every half hour This change is being made to compensate for the loss of Service 7 journeys. The longer journeys between Plymouth and Dartmouth are unaffected and remain as they are. From the end of October Service 93 buses will depart from Royal Parade (Stop A8), sharing the stop with Service 2 - which means that buses travelling the same direction will leave from the same place.

Service PR1 (George Park and Ride): The timetable of the PR1 Park and Ride Service is being altered. From 27 October buses will run every 12 minutes during the daytime (compared to 10 minutes at present).

Service X80 (Plymouth - Ivybridge - Totnes - Paignton - Torquay) and Service X81 Dartmouth - Totnes - Paignton Torquay): These two services are being withdrawn from 27 October. People who use the route should not be concerned though as another " almost identical - service has been registered by Stagecoach. This means that people should still able to get from A to B easily. To ease the transition from one operator to the other, First has also made arrangements for season tickets, and particularly scholar passes, to be honoured by the new operator for a set period of time.

Specific changes affecting services in Plymouth, from 2 November

Service 48 (Wembury - City Centre - Burrator): The timetable of this service is being changed slightly. Specifically the winter timetable - applicable until Easter 2014 - will take effect from 2 November, meaning that the timetable for journeys on Sundays will change. Specifically the last bus from Burrator, terminating in Plymouth City Centre, will be at 1605 hours, while the last bus to Wembury from Royal Parade will depart at 1519 hours. The last bus from Wembury to the City Centre will depart at 1555 hours. These changes are being made at the request of Plymouth City Council who fund the service. Customers should note the changes only affect the Sunday timetable. Journeys running Monday - Saturday remain as they are.

Service 81/81A (Plymouth - Torpoint - Insworke): To coincide with changes being made elsewhere in Cornwall at the same time, Service 81/81A is being altered from 2 November. Specifically the timetable is being simplified. In addition the route is being altered so that all buses follow a standard route within Plymouth. From 2 November they will travel via Devonport and Union Street and will not call at Stoke or Milehouse. Customers are advised to check the new timetable carefully before travelling to ensure they know what is happening.

For more information about all the changes being made, to view new and existing timetables or to find out more about First, log onto www.firstgroup.com/devon. New timetables will be made available online and in hard copy format - available from Travel Shops very soon.

First is on Twitter and Facebook, at www.twitter.com/FirstBus_Devon and www.facebook.com/FirstDevonandCornwall. First also has a smartphone app (for apple and android) phones, which can offer people access to timetable and route information while they are on the move. The app, which is free to download, can be found online by searching for 'First Bus App'.

 

[overthewater]

Service X80 (Plymouth - Ivybridge - Totnes - Paignton - Torquay) and Service X81 Dartmouth - Totnes - Paignton Torquay): These two services are being withdrawn from 27 October. People who use the route should not be concerned though as another " almost identical - service has been registered by Stagecoach. This means that people should still able to get from A to B easily. To ease the transition from one operator to the other, First has also made arrangements for season tickets, and particularly scholar passes, to be honoured by the new operator for a set period of time.

That has got to be the most interesting part to these changes.

 

[richw]

That has got to be the most interesting part to these changes.

And perhaps adds further to my suspicion that First/Stagecoach had an off the book agreement for Stagecoach to take over from them.

 

[Rich McLean]

Slightly different to what I thought would happen.

Only a matter of time before CityBus register another route in plymstock to give First competition on the 2 route

 

[Gez.SCNW]

Scania registered these anything registered by ADL, Scarborough will be YX

They were ordered for Cambridgeshire, but diverted to Devon. They carry YN plates because most new buses are now registered en masse by the manufacturers, in this case Plaxton at Scarborough.

 

[starrymarkb]

Scania Bus are near Worksop arn't they?

Must be a recent change not to use local plates, recent '13' plates deliveries here have been on "WA"

 

[richw]

Scania Bus are near Worksop arn't they?

Must be a recent change not to use local plates, recent '13' plates deliveries here have been on "WA"

I think it depends on the operating division within First. First DC register all their brand new buses through Exeter DVLA.

 

[overthewater]

I think it depends on the operating division within First. First DC register all their brand new buses through Exeter DVLA.

That closing down, come November so it will also be in the same situation

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dvla-local-office-closure-plan-announced

 

[richw]

That closing down, come November so it will also be in the same situation

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dvla-local-office-closure-plan-announced

So will we lose local registrations going forward if all these offices close? Even with cars I'm guessing will be affected.

 

[plymothian]

I see Bob Crow is now taking an interest in what's happening.

 

[Deerfold]

I see Bob Crow is now taking an interest in what's happening.

In Devon? In DVLA offices closing down?

Care to share what's he's doing/where you've seen something?

 

[swifty]

In Devon? In DVLA offices closing down?

Care to share what's he's doing/where you've seen something?

A hyped up press release with phrases like 'ripped to shreds', and 'open the floodgates to an all-out attack'.

http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-pledges-fight-over-south-west-bus-service-cuts/

 

[starrymarkb]

So will we lose local registrations going forward if all these offices close? Even with cars I'm guessing will be affected.

I'm guessing that Cars will still be registered through the dealer's electronic systems, with local marks based on the dealer's admin location (when I was in a dealer, vans were registered by head office in Avonmouth using an Electronic Registration system, so had Bristol plates, trucks were registered manually at the DVLA office so had a "WA" plate)

 

[richw]

I'm guessing that Cars will still be registered through the dealer's electronic systems, with local marks based on the dealer's admin location

Interesting, I'd be interested in what my local Vauxhall dealer are doing. We have 3 brand new cars all from the Vauxhall dealer, registered same day. One is on a VK registration, one a WG and the other is on the local area registration of WL. The two Peugeot/ Citreons we also purchased are also both WK registration as expected. (We being my families business, Our local DVLA office is Truro so WK & WL prefix)

Back on topic (almost) The most recent new buses I'm aware of in Cornwall are Exeter Registered

 

[RPI]

Let the price war commence http://m.firstgroup.com/ukbus/devon_cornwall/news/id/13151

 

[Rich McLean]

They are ready for battle now it seems. Slash the prices, get more people onto their services, then register new routes

 

[overthewater]

They are ready for battle now it seems. Slash the prices, get more people onto their services, then register new routes

Maybe there should have slashed the price first Before slashing the routes

 

[Rich McLean]

Maybe there should have slashed the price first Before slashing the routes

Indeed, however it seems not to be the first way of doing things. If they did that, loss making routes would make even more of a loss to begin with, not what they wanted to do.

 

[Rapidash]

Anyone seen the Gold buses yet? Nothing out of the obvious when I went past the Torquay depot yesterday.

 

[mbonwick]

They won't be at Torquay until just before the service starts; for now they'll either be at Exeter depot in store, or at a Scania dealers.

 

[RPI]

They won't keep them at Torquay yet as they'd be on bricks by the time the service started

 

[starrymarkb]

I believe they are at Scania Exeter. They certainly are not at Exeter depot...

 

[Rich McLean]

One of the Decker's currently on test

I wonder if CityBus will try and match Firsts Fare reductions. Only time will tell

 

[RPI]

One of the Decker's currently on test

I wonder if CityBus will try and match Firsts Fare reductions. Only time will tell

it would be suicide if they did, can't see PCB's Tavvy services lasting long to be honest as if they drop their fares even below that of FDC then surely it wouldn't even cover the fuel, let alone all the money "invested" in the new vehicles. Either way, the real winner here is the customer!

 

[overthewater]

it would be suicide if they did, can't see PCB's Tavvy services lasting long to be honest as if they drop their fares even below that of FDC then surely it wouldn't even cover the fuel, let alone all the money "invested" in the new vehicles. Either way, the real winner here is the customer!

Of course what if loads of new customers start using the service? which helps cover the cost?