South Devon Bus War

[Rich McLean]

In the coming months, First's out of town routes from Plymouth will be attacked by Stagecoach SD and Plymouth CityBus (Go-Ahead)

It has already been mentioned, but these are the VOSA registrations

PH0000135/150 - PLYMOUTH CITYBUS LTD, MILEHOUSE, MILEHOUSE ROAD, PLYMOUTH, PL3 4AA
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Royal Parade
Finish Point: Torpoint HMS Raleigh
Via:
Service Number: 32
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 06-OCT-2013
Other Details: Mon-Sat except bank hols

Note with the torpoint service, there is no Sunday Service offered.

PH1020951/197 - STAGECOACH DEVON LTD, BELGRAVE ROAD, EXETER, EX1 2LB
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Torquay Strand
Finish Point: Totnes Royal Seven Stars
Via:
Service Number: GOLD
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 30-SEP-2013
Other Details: Daily service, Half hourly Mon-Sat and 2 hourly Sundays & Bank Holidays

PH1020951/198 - STAGECOACH DEVON LTD, BELGRAVE ROAD, EXETER, EX1 2LB
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Totnes Royal Seven Stars
Finish Point: Plymouth
Via:
Service Number: GOLD
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 30-SEP-2013
Other Details: Daily service - hourly Mon to Sats & 2 hourly Sundays & Bank Holidays

PH1020951/199 - STAGECOACH DEVON LTD, BELGRAVE ROAD, EXETER, EX1 2LB
Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Totnes Royal Seven Stars
Finish Point: Dartmouth
Via:
Service Number: GOLD
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 30-SEP-2013
Other Details: Mondays to Saturdays except Bank Holidays - hourly service

No Numbers for this have been allocated yet.

and

Registration Accepted Starting Point: Plymouth Royal Parade Finish Point: Tavistock Bus Station Via:

Service Number: F1 Service Type: Normal Stopping

Effective Date: 05-OCT-2013

Other Details: Sunday to Saturday, Sunday service on bank hols. Mon-Sat, every 30 mins Sunday, 4 trips per day

So things are set to hot up. If these routes take off, its only a matter of time before Stagecoach compete with the 93 and CityBus attack Firsts other services in Plymouth. Barne Barton alone has 12 buses per hour (6 First number 3, 6 CityBus 21/21A), which is only a smallish housing estate in St Beadaux

Let battle commence is what I say. I will be down there again at some point in the Autumn, would be interesting to see the loading's

 

[34D]

Gold? Getting as bad as Trent!

 

[Northerner]

I remember something similar happening in Stockport when I was a lad, GM buses were in competition with BeeLine , low prices during the "war" then steady price increases once the monopoly has been established

 

[winston270twm]

For First to stand a chance in Plymouth they seriously need to update the fleet. Especially with both Stagecoach & Citybus starting the new competing routes with brand new buses

 

[317 forever]

I think that Go-Ahead were willing to buy out parts of First Plymouth to the north and west, and Stagecoach parts to the east. However, either lack of agreement over price, or concerns of OFT interferance, discouraged such deals from materialising. So Go-Ahead and Stagecoach have decided to introduce parellel servies anyway in the hope of First withdrawing.

 

[Rich McLean]

Some pictures of the New Buses destined for the 21/21A Barne Barton - City Centre - Plympton Route

This route is in direct competition with First's Route 3 on the western half of it. Will first beable to compete with this with buses that are 10+ years old?

 

[robertclark125]

It's interesting to note that the interior is the style that Gyles Fearnley promised when he took over at First. Thing is, if cars have leather seats as standard, why can't buses?

 

[winston270twm]

Are there any hints/rumours on how First intend to respond to the Plymouth Citybus new routes & Stagecoach Gold competition?

 

[Rich McLean]

Are there any hints/rumours on how First intend to respond to the Plymouth Citybus new routes & Stagecoach Gold competition?

Nothing yet. Plymouth Transit is normally the best source of information.

http://www.plymothiantransit.com/

 

[winston270twm]

Nothing yet. Plymouth Transit is normally the best source of information.

http://www.plymothiantransit.com/

Thanks for that, strange given the fact the others aren't shy in confirming/showing what they are planning

 

[Rich McLean]

Indeed. Also on that site, further details of Stagecoach Gold routes

It appears the service will not have a number, but just be called Gold. Not good considering one bus goes to Plymouth and the other to Dartmouth

http://www.stagecoachbus.com/PdfUploads/Timetable_43427_GOLD.pdf

Time table for those wanting a look

 

[starrymarkb]

It's good to see that Stagecoach are making the effort to oppose* First's timetime. ie running half way between First Services where possible (rather then 5 mins ahead like most competitive services)

*Not the right word I know

 

[Deerfold]

It's good to see that Stagecoach are making the effort to oppose* First's timetime. ie running half way between First Services where possible (rather then 5 mins ahead like most competitive services)

*Not the right word I know

Perhaps the right word is "complement"

Yes, it is better seeing that.

It's interesting to note that the interior is the style that Gyles Fearnley promised when he took over at First. Thing is, if cars have leather seats as standard, why can't buses?

They can - of course not everyone likes leather seating - some are vegetarian, some dislike how sweaty they can be in hot weather.

 

[quarella]

It's interesting to note that the interior is the style that Gyles Fearnley promised when he took over at First. Thing is, if cars have leather seats as standard, why can't buses?
They can - of course not everyone likes leather seating - some are vegetarian, some dislike how sweaty they can be in hot weather

The initial cost and the cost of repairs due to vandalism. The argument could be put that a more luxurious interior reduces vandalism.

 

[radamfi]

First do have a lot of leather seat buses in some areas which had a big upgrade last year following the Olympics, such as Greater Manchester and West Yorkshire.

If leather seats are the height of luxury, why don't trains usually have them?

 

[edwin_m]

I think there's a theory that leather seats are less prone to spillages and other damage, so cost less in the long run especially when considering the extra cost of stopping the vehicle for longer to clean up or repair. At least that's the only reason I can think of for Ryanair to be using them.

 

[richw]

Regarding the competing services, how do the fares compare?
I would assume people wont worry about how old the bus is if the fare is cheaper.
Living in West Cornwall the 10 year old buses you mention would be like new to us.

 

[Rich McLean]

Looks as if First are winding down and biting the bullet.

PH0004983/31 - FIRST DEVON & CORNWALL LTD, THE RIDE, CHELSON MEADOW, PLYMOUTH, PL9 7JT

Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Plymouth Bus Station and Paignton Bus Station given service number X80/X81 effective from 27-Oct-2013.

PH0004983/32 - FIRST DEVON & CORNWALL LTD, THE RIDE, CHELSON MEADOW, PLYMOUTH, PL9 7JT

Variation Accepted: Operating between Tavistock Bus Station and Plymouth Royal Parade given service number 83/83A/84/86/86A effective from 27-Oct-2013. To amend Timetable.

PH0004983/278 - FIRST DEVON & CORNWALL LTD, THE RIDE, CHELSON MEADOW, PLYMOUTH, PL9 7JT

Variation Accepted: Operating between THE GEORGE PARK AND RIDE SITE and PLYMOUTH (Royal Parade) given service number PR1 effective from 27-Oct-2013. To amend Timetable.

PH0004983/294 - FIRST DEVON & CORNWALL LTD, THE RIDE, CHELSON MEADOW, PLYMOUTH, PL9 7JT

Variation Accepted: Operating between Coypool Park & Ride Site and Royal Parade given service number PR2 effective from 27-Oct-2013. To amend Timetable.

PH0004983/328 - FIRST DEVON & CORNWALL LTD, THE RIDE, CHELSON MEADOW, PLYMOUTH, PL9 7JT

Variation Accepted: Operating between Plymouth Royal Parade and Keyham given service number 4 effective from 27-Oct-2013. To amend Timetable.

PH0004983/330 - FIRST DEVON & CORNWALL LTD, THE RIDE, CHELSON MEADOW, PLYMOUTH, PL9 7JT

Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Plymouth Royal Parade and Blackstone Close given service number 6 effective from 27-Oct-2013.

PH0004983/333 - FIRST DEVON & CORNWALL LTD, THE RIDE, CHELSON MEADOW, PLYMOUTH, PL9 7JT

Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Plymouth Royal Parade and Mount Gould given service number 5 effective from 27-Oct-2013.

PH0004983/336 - FIRST DEVON & CORNWALL LTD, THE RIDE, CHELSON MEADOW, PLYMOUTH, PL9 7JT

Variation Accepted: Operating between Plymouth Royal Parade and St Budeaux Square given service number 3 effective from 27-Oct-2013. To amend Route and Timetable.

PH0004983/337 - FIRST DEVON & CORNWALL LTD, THE RIDE, CHELSON MEADOW, PLYMOUTH, PL9 7JT

Variation Accepted: Operating between Plymouth Royal Parade and Mount Batten given service number 2 effective from 27-Oct-2013. To amend Route and Timetable.



PH0004983/389 - FIRST DEVON & CORNWALL LTD, THE RIDE, CHELSON MEADOW, PLYMOUTH, PL9 7JT

Variation Accepted: Operating between Plymouth, Royal Parade and Kingsbridge Quay given service number 93 effective from 27-Oct-2013. To amend Route and Timetable.

PH0004983/396 - FIRST DEVON & CORNWALL LTD, THE RIDE, CHELSON MEADOW, PLYMOUTH, PL9 7JT

Variation Accepted: Operating between Plymouth City Centre and Roborough given service number 15 effective from 27-Oct-2013. To amend Route and Timetable.

PH0004983/414 - FIRST DEVON & CORNWALL LTD, THE RIDE, CHELSON MEADOW, PLYMOUTH, PL9 7JT

Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Paignton and Torquay given service number X80/X81 effective from 27-Oct-2013.

PH0004983/434 - FIRST DEVON & CORNWALL LTD, THE RIDE, CHELSON MEADOW, PLYMOUTH, PL9 7JT

Cancellation Accepted: Operating between Plymouth, Royal Parade and Elburton Village given service number 7 effective from 27-Oct-2013.

PH0004983/463 - FIRST DEVON & CORNWALL LTD, THE RIDE, CHELSON MEADOW, PLYMOUTH, PL9 7JT

Registration Accepted
Starting Point: Plymouth, Royal Parade
Finish Point: Laira
Via: Lipson Vale, Efford
Service Number: 6/Purple
Service Type: Normal Stopping
Effective Date: 27-OCT-2013
Other Details: Monday to Saturday except public holidays

 

[RPI]

So that's the end of the X81 then?

 

[starrymarkb]

And the X80 - surprised that just the threat of competition was enough?

 

[RPI]

Saw a new ish looking enviro on one of the X81's today
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Anyone know what the variations to the Tavvy routes are?

 

[starrymarkb]

Probably one of the WA08 batch from the X9, they were sent to Weston Super Mud Briefly but as they were partially funded by Devon County Council with the condition they were used in the county they were ordered back when DCC noticed.

 

[richw]

And the X80 - surprised that just the threat of competition was enough?

As I have commented on the other South West bus thread, I have wondered whether it was an agreement between First and Stagecoach. Competition Commissioner probably wouldn't allow the sale to Stagecoach. Stagecoach start a competing route and First pull out immediately after.
I may be putting 2 and 2 and getting 5 however we have already seen similar occurrence in North Devon.

 

[Rapidash]

I'm surprised the X80 is going, I would have thought there was sufficient numbers going from Torquay and Paignton, as a lot of people use it as a commuter route to and from Totnes, surely sufficient to have two operators using the route.

Oh well, guess the Explorer tickets just became that little more useful.

 

[winston270twm]

I'm surprised the X80 is going, I would have thought there was sufficient numbers going from Torquay and Paignton, as a lot of people use it as a commuter route to and from Totnes, surely sufficient to have two operators using the route.

Oh well, guess the Explorer tickets just became that little more useful.

There is always the chance that a new registration could follow tomorrow or Monday?

 

[Rich McLean]

These are the changes in more detail for First in Plymouth and South Devon. This has been heard from a few drivers

Service 6 we know is withdrawn and looks like its to be replaced by changes to the 2 in some way. Service 7 also withdrawn somehow replaced in part by changes to the 93.

Service 3 is an interesting one. It does indeed seem that they are withdrawing from Barne Barton. There has been a lot of suggestions that the route instead will be extended up through Higher St Budeaux to West Park and Honicknowle.

Service 4 believed to be just a timetable change – nothing major

Service 5 we know is being withdrawn with no replacement.

Service 15 – clearly being extended up to Roborough and possibly into Woolwell. Will no longer serve Mainstone / Asda.

Service 83 etc Tavistock. Rumours suggest that First are going to concentrate on the direct service in much the same way at Citybus. It has been suggested that this will mean no more direct buses to Derriford Hospital apart from a few peak runs. This is probably the reason behind the 15 extension as it could then serve as a connecting service to Derriford. Either that or they could offer through tickets on the Park & Ride service run by Target?

Service X80 X81 are withdrawn.

New service 6 to serve Laira / Efford.

Source: http://www.plymothiantransit.com/

It does seems First are going to fight in other area's. What concerns me is if first make service 2 much longer and re-route it, Citybus will pounce and offer a new service copying the old route, and no doubt will clean up.

 

[plymothian]

Interesting they've rolled over and surrendered the X80 even before GOLD starts especially Stagecoach lost their X45 battle last time.

 

[Rich McLean]

Rumors suggesting it was an unofficial mutual agreement, so First can concentrate their resources on Plymouth.

Still no announcement from the website. I am interested in what the number 2 route will take, but I have a feeling it will be a long route, and PCB will pounce and copy the route they left behind, the same as they did with the 5/5a

 

[plymothian]

To replace the 6, the 2 would have to cover Staddiscombe and Oreston, thus leaving out Pomphlett, it would have to be an either/or situation and would leave 2 places with no service else become a long and inconvenient journey. With the 7 it is rumoured the 93 will divert via Elburton.
PCB will expand to fill the gaps and directly compete with the 2 in Hooe at some point.
On another point Mainstone is now bereft of a regular service, who will be looking to go there but is there a worthwhile customer base?

However we should not think this is exclusively a 2 horse race, because there are 6 bus operators in Plymouth all together, and whilst Stagecoach and Western Greyhound can be ruled out at this point, Target are established and Jackett's are up and coming.

 

[swifty]

Reading the minutes of the Plymouth Customer panel one of the members mentioned this, 'Citybus will be doing a day rider to Tavistock for £3.50.'

How do First fares compare with this on that corridor?