Sorry TPE, it's Virgin from now on.

[fowler9]

Yeah I agree with what both of you have said about the lack of outside noise on Desiros, their ride is also very smooth and both those reasons are why to/from the Hounslow area I take SWT over LUL Piccadilly Line to go to/from uni. Same with the Heathrow Connect ones, far better than the noisy diesel Networkers that FGW have. I think I've been on an Electrostar once (Purley Oaks - Norwood Junction) but don't really remember too much about the ride :P

I really don't mind the Desiros. They are really good for new fangled modern units. Ha ha. I still preferred travelling on the older Mk 2's on similar journies from Liverpool to Birmingham and the like. I'm an old fart though. Ha ha.
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They're not that noisy. They're fairly average for a high pass turbofan from the 90's.

Now turbojet engines, they're noisy.

EDIT: Back on topic.

I don't recall there being a brake smell on Mk2s. IIRC they used cast iron tread brakes. Mk3s on the other hand....

Drifting slightly off topic again I think the 777 engines make a lovely noise but I am sure I have read in many debates that the noise onboard a 777 is either air passing over the fuselage or the air conditioning. You can hear the engines spool down and get quieter as the plane reaches cruising altitude and I don't think that it is the engines you can hear. An older 747 is still louder outside and quieter inside, despite the huge engines of the 777.

 

[samuelmorris]

Agreed on the Desiro A/C being the most effective, but when it's working hard in the summer, it's considerably louder than in winter, and it ain't quiet to start with. If on a very hot day and the fan powers up to maximum speed, the noise is genuinely obtrusive. Fortunately there aren't too many occasions when this happens, and on the days it does, you're glad the A/C is there. It's preferable to sweltering in silence.

Class 357 A/C is effective enough for the units to feel pleasantly cool when you board them in summer, but not quite enough to stop you overheating when standing among a big pile of people in the morning commuter rush.

As for 360/2 vs 165, no contest really, apart from well over 10 years of age separation you also have AC traction motors vs. a diesel hydraulic power system to deal with. At the lower rpm typically employed by DEMUs it wouldn't be quite so bad, but a large diesel engine sitting under you is never going to be anything like as smooth. An interesting point well raised about IEP.

Sadly the comparative quiet of modern units is largely spoiled by the enormous increase in track noise in the past decade. Even on electrostars the track whine is often louder than the traction motors, on desiros it renders them inaudible.

Briefly touching the aviation topic, I think there may be some rose tinted glasses here. I found a Trent powered A330 far quieter than the typical UK short-haul fare (A320, 757) and indeed the 767, for engine noise. However, aircraft with larger engines can cruise at lower proportional engine speeds which ultimately leads to a somewhat quieter flight. Not hugely so though, as a lot of the noise you hear in flight is the ventilation.

 

[fowler9]

Agreed on the Desiro A/C being the most effective, but when it's working hard in the summer, it's considerably louder than in winter, and it ain't quiet to start with. If on a very hot day and the fan powers up to maximum speed, the noise is genuinely obtrusive. Fortunately there aren't too many occasions when this happens, and on the days it does, you're glad the A/C is there. It's preferable to sweltering in silence.

Class 357 A/C is effective enough for the units to feel pleasantly cool when you board them in summer, but not quite enough to stop you overheating when standing among a big pile of people in the morning commuter rush.

As for 360/2 vs 165, no contest really, apart from well over 10 years of age separation you also have AC traction motors vs. a diesel hydraulic power system to deal with. At the lower rpm typically employed by DEMUs it wouldn't be quite so bad, but a large diesel engine sitting under you is never going to be anything like as smooth. An interesting point well raised about IEP.

Sadly the comparative quiet of modern units is largely spoiled by the enormous increase in track noise in the past decade. Even on electrostars the track whine is often louder than the traction motors, on desiros it renders them inaudible.

Briefly touching the aviation topic, I think there may be some rose tinted glasses here. I found a Trent powered A330 far quieter than the typical UK short-haul fare (A320, 757) and indeed the 767, for engine noise. However, aircraft with larger engines can cruise at lower proportional engine speeds which ultimately leads to a somewhat quieter flight. Not hugely so though, as a lot of the noise you hear in flight is the ventilation.

Didn't mean to make it look like it was a rose tinted glases thing. I thought the 747 was quieter onboard, I also think the A330 and A340 are quieter than the 777 and they are more modern designs agewise.

The main thing I have with the Class 350 is that it is used on routes that used to have long distance coaches which had a smooth enough ride for me and were quieter and didn't look like the a more modern version of the kind of train I'd get to Seaforth from Liverpool Central both inside and out.

 

[samuelmorris]

Don't want to push this tangent too far, but the A330/A340 design actually predates the 777 by a couple of years - the first A330 delivery was 1993, the first 777 1995.

I agree about the long distance seating on 350/360/450s. It's fine if you're at a set with a table, but if not, it's just a commuter train seat really, fine for 30-40 mins, but for a couple of hours plus I imagine it'd get a bit tiresome.