Something you Glasgow Electrics and Steam lovers might like

[Bittern]

Found a link to this on Scot-Rail. It's a pretty bizarre move when you remember that BR's taste for steam turned foul.

I can imagine how rare such a move must've been as I thought BR only used steam whenever they absolutely had to at this point considering it was quickly being shown the door. Also note how the 303 has full yellow warning panels and the state of the 9F, both of which suggest mid-sixties.

 

[Welshman]

Fascinating photograph!

I seem to remember that shortly after the "Blue Trains" were introduced, they had problems with transformers/rectifiers [or something technical] which caused explosions on the trains, and the whole batch were hastily withdrawn, resulting in hastily-substituted steam services and probably the photo you've uploaded.

 

[CarterUSM]

Do you know the location in the photograph? It looks familiar but I cannot place it.

 

[Bittern]

Apparently it's somewhere near Preston.

 

[CarterUSM]

Apparently it's somewhere near Preston.

Not that familiar then! I had visions of Glasgow suburbia.

 

[SouthEastern-465]

Great picture, I am suprised its not been featured in any railway magazines yet.

 

[table38]

Apparently it's somewhere near Preston.

Going by the 8 houses, looks like it may have been Skew Bridge Junction here:

 

[Bittern]

Not that familiar then! I had visions of Glasgow suburbia.

I'm unsure of how common 9Fs were in the Glasgow area. As far as I'm aware, none were sheded in Scotland, although I could be wrong.

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm unsure of how common 9Fs were in the Glasgow area. As far as I'm aware, none were sheded in Scotland, although I could be wrong.

My book on 9Fs agrees with you that none were ever based in Scotland, but it does go onto say that towards the end of their careers some were based at Carlise Kingmoor so did from time to time appear north of the boarder once they were based there. So it's possible (maybe even probable) that this locomotive came from there.

 

[gg1]

Great photo, I've always liked 9fs


Is it possible the 303 were dragged south for a few test runs on the then newly electrified Euston to Crewe section of the WCML, maybe to compare them with 304s?

 

[Bittern]

So it's possible (maybe even probable) that this locomotive came from there.

But this shot was in Preston, as mentioned earlier.

 

[vectra33]

Going by the 8 houses, looks like it may have been Skew Bridge Junction here:

Well spotted mate.
Ive Just looked at the old lancashire council photos from the sky of preston in the 1960s and the signal box is shown at the end of the garden of the second house.

The rearmost driving coach seems to have a patch of white on it?,could the unit have been en route to crewe or horwich for repair?

dave

 

[ainsworth74]

But this shot was in Preston, as mentioned earlier.

Good point, missed that

 

[table38]

could the unit have been en route to crewe or horwich for repair?

Maybe Dukinfield...

The Class 303's suffered a near-catastrophic inauguration when two explosions, in separate MBS cars, occurred in December 1960.

All of the 77 units so far delivered were withdrawn and a subsequent MOT enquiry traced the problems to a build up of oil and air vapour in the equipment compartment between the guard and passenger sections. Problems occurred too, with water leakage in the wrap-round designs of the front windows.

However after modifications carried out by Metro Vicks at Dukinfield Works, the units re-appreared (the rest were modified in Scotland) and after proving trials on the Styal line, they re-entered service. The first such to be noted was at Heald Green on March 13th 1961.

The modified power cars were sent out from Dukinfield in pairs to East Didsbury and from there they were marshalled between driving trailer cars forming an effective 4-car train. With testing complete, six power cars were marshalled between two Gresley brake coaches with a 20-ton goods brake van at either end.

Drawn by an 8F travelling tender first, the ensemble ran to Wilmslow where reversal took place before running back towards Stockport. From here the train proceeded via Heaton Norris Junction and Ashton Moss Junction. Then "over the Snipe" to Droylesden Junction and along towards Manchester Victoria. Thence out via Blackburn and the Settle & Carlisle line and home to Glasgow. A long tedious and slow trip!

from E M Johnson's book "Manchester to Crewe Part One"

 

[43106]

My book on 9Fs agrees with you that none were ever based in Scotland, but it does go onto say that towards the end of their careers some were based at Carlisle Kingmoor........

I can confirm that 9Fs were at Carlisle Kingmoor (12A), as I always saw some there every time I visited there in 1965 & 1966. Occasionally, there were the Crosti-boilered variety. I'm talking about the depot when it was on the EAST side of the line, opposite the current Kingmoor depot. I only found out recently that Kingmoor was originally a SCOTTISH Region shed, with shed code 68A!

 

[Bittern]

Well spotted mate.
Ive Just looked at the old lancashire council photos from the sky of preston in the 1960s and the signal box is shown at the end of the garden of the second house.

The rearmost driving coach seems to have a patch of white on it?,could the unit have been en route to crewe or horwich for repair?

dave

Perhaps heading for repair due to transformer explosions. When the 303s -or AM3s before TOPS- were introduced in the early 60s, they were prone to transformer explosions and the steam locos they replaced returned to life to replace them while the AM3s got sent for repair.

 

[b0b]

Not that familiar then! I had visions of Glasgow suburbia.

way too nice for Glasgow suburbia - and there aren't too many places, other than parts of the WCML approaching Glasgow Central, with more than 2 tracks. You missed two big clues right away.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I think I can read the number as 92041; where was that shedded in the years in question?

Also... note how much coal there is in the tender; that locomotive has not been on that train for very long.

 

[furryfeet]

the signal box is shown at the end of the garden of the second house.

The rearmost driving coach seems to have a patch of white on it?,could the unit have been en route to crewe or horwich for repair?

You can still see, in the "modern" photo, the recess in the embankment, where the signal box stood.
Looking at the old photo, the last vehicle in the consist is a brake van.
This would make sense, since the 9F would be vacuum braked and the emu stock was air braked.

 

[O L Leigh]

Copied and pasted from here.

Quite by chance I have a copy of the snappily titled Second Interim Report on the Accidents and Failures which occurred in Multiple Unit Electric Trains in the Scottish Region and Eastern Region British Railways.

While this largely concentrating on the problems with the Eastern's GEC-equipped units (later Cl305) on the "NE London Suburban Electrified Lines" (or the West Anglia routes, as we call it today), it also makes mention of progress made towards modifications with Scotland's AEI-equipped units (later Cl303). This document is dated 30 May 1961 and refers to "accidents" on 13 and 17 December 1960, the last of which resulted in a withdrawal of the entire Glasgow suburban electric fleet, and to an interim report dated 13 January 1961 in which the causes of the failures were established and the work to be done to rectify them was outlined.

While the traction equipment was different on each fleet there appears to have been a number of common issues, specifically when operating on the 6.25kV AC OLE. Both fleets suffered transient over-voltages that caused some similar and some different problems. As well as better ventilation to deal with problems with the mercury arc rectifiers and the need to fit better surge suppression to protect the motors, the Glasgow units required a full transformer re-build as it was found that "...excess current conditions had caused the collapse of the original transformer secondary windings".

As at 3 May 1961, 68 AEI transformers had been rebuilt to the new specifications with 32 modified units having been delivered back from the Dukinfield Railway Works near Manchester for trial running and driver training. A test train comprising two modified units kitted out as a mobile laboratory had been run successfully over the nights of 21, 22 and 23 March 1961 and was planned to run for a total of 20000 miles. Each modified unit was also required to run for 2000 miles before being returned to service.

In Glasgow there was little alternative but to return to steam operation, but on the NE London suburban lines the troublesome GEC units were relegated to the Chingford line and the Colchester-Clacton line where any failures would not cause massive knock-on delays, while the electric service was propped up by diverting English Electric units intended for the London, Tilbury & Southend electrification scheme and from the Colchester-Clacton line (probably a mix of Cl302's and Cl308's).

Quite how this story ends I cannot say because I have not seen the promised final report. However, it appears that your visit must have coincided with this saga.

O L Leigh

 

[OuterDistant]

The full report on the EMU explosions is at the excellent Railways Archive website.

Ironically, it gets so technical that my head exploded, too.

 

[O L Leigh]

Hey, good find. Thanks for that.

I've just had a quick read and it is a bit of a "mind f**k" but, whether you understand the technical information or not, it does neatly illustrate the follies of attempting to design something in a laboratory.

As the report says, all these EMUs coming into service on the Glasgow, Manchester and London Eastern Region suburban networks (including those ER units converted from 1500V DC operation) were effectively a huge experiment in rail electrification, as no other network had at that time attempted to create a dual high voltage system of AC overhead electrification. Therefore unreliability was bound to follow, especially on lines where trains would be expected to use both the dual voltages of 6.25kV and 25kV AC. Components were designed and built based on experimental parameters and did not sufficiently take into account the actual demands made on them in operation. Therefore failures occurred that could not have been predicted, the precise nature of which depended largely on the design and construction of individual components from contractors used to equip the traction for individual routes.

However, it seems that the causes were fairly common, at least where they weren't down to poor component design. Pan bounce, which could lead to "chopping" of the Air Blast Breaker (we now use Vacuum Breakers which do not "chop"), and incorrect operation of the APC Voltage Selection Equipment which, under certain conditions, could occasionally malfunction and apply 25kV to the 6.25kV circuits imposed large transient over-voltages onto the electrical equipment, especially on the 6.25kV AC lines where they could reach voltages as high as 6 times the normal operational maximum as well as generating very high currents.

On the AEI equipped Glasgow units this lead to overheating and distortion of the secondary windings due to electro-magnetic force which, in at least two instances, caused the transformer oil to gasify and resulted in an explosion in the guards compartment. On the EE equipped London North Eastern units these over-voltages took their toll on the tertiary circuits, blowing out battery chargers as well as traction motors instead of the transformers, which were of a more robust design. The LNE units did also suffer with problems associated with the mercury arc rectifiers, some of which was down to "chopping" of the ABB and some due to the cooling arrangements for the anodes and cathodes.

History shows that they got there in the end, although the removal of the 6.25kV sections helped enormously. The various upgrades and modifications to both the trains and the fixed lineside equipment ironed out all these problems, and lessons learned were applied to later generations of EMUs.

O L Leigh