Some details regarding ScotRail HSTs released

[ARoo21]

ScotRail HST fleet plans have also been announced. http://www.railmagazine.com/news/2015/08/25/scotrail-hst-fleet-plans

The arrival in Scotland of 27 refurbished High Speed Trains in 2017/18 paves the way for their introduction in June-December 2018.

This is dependent on them being released by First Great Western as electrification is completed between London and Bristol/Oxford. The HSTs will displace Class 170 diesel units on the services from Edinburgh and Glasgow to Stirling, Perth, Dundee, Aberdeen and Inverness.

Before the trains enter service - there will be 14 four-car sets (two Class 43 power cars plus four carriages) and 13 five-car sets (2+5) - they will be fully refurbished with new seats and tables, new floor coverings and carpets, re-coated ceilings, WiFi and power sockets, improved LED lighting, and the exterior slam doors will be replaced by power-operated ones (in line with the PRM-TSI regulations).

• For much more on this story, read RAIL 782, published on September 2

 

[Blindtraveler]

New seats too on the HST? Not required Id have said as the current ones are fine. Good they're sorting out the lighting though!

 

[fgwrich]

New seats too on the HST? Not required Id have said as the current ones are fine. Good they're sorting out the lighting though!

Somehow I don't see the point of reseating the HSTs - They already have the same seats as the 'Inverness' set 158s, unless Rail has got their wires crossed when they meant to say new seat covers. If anything, and at the rate everything seems to be moving at the moment, ScotRail may as well re-use the seats from the 'retired' FGW Mk3s for the 'Haymarket' sets - There's going to be a heck of a load of spare good condition Standard and First Class seats going to store very soon!

 

[Blindtraveler]

Agreed entirely. They are, to me anyway some of the best on the network in terms of a Post Privatisation seat. Quite like the 222s as well, but none beet the orrigional squashy 1s fitted to 158s from new.

 

[sprinterguy]

Unless the magazine article carries more detail, this announcement doesn't appear to convey anything new? The following has already been released by Abellio, and RAIL Magazine seem to have quoted it almost word for word:

A true intercity railway network for Scotland
http://www.abellio.com/scotrail-passenger-story/true-intercity-railway-network-scotland

Our plans to create Scotland's first true intercity standard rail network will transform the quality of rail travel from Glasgow and Edinburgh to Inverness and Aberdeen – the routes which serve all seven Scottish cities.


Our assessment of the current Class 170 trains on these lines is that they are better suited to suburban than long distance journeys. As a result, from December 2018, we will operate high speed trains, which have long been synonymous with comfortable, high quality travel, on all ScotRail intercity services. Their introduction will be phased in progressively over the preceding six months. Each high speed train service will operate with either four or five air-conditioned carriages, providing an overall increase in seats of more than 33% across the intercity network.


We will bring all carriages up to the latest modern standards with a comprehensive refurbishment programme. It will include new seats and tables, new floor coverings and carpets, re-coated ceilings, additional at-seat power sockets and improved LED lighting. All trains will have wifi availability throughout. Standard features will include greater legroom, additional luggage storage and ample space for bicycles and sports equipment (including skis and golf clubs).

The introduction of a galley and buffet area on each train will enable us to improve the onboard catering service significantly. We will use this to showcase the best Scottish food and drink which customers will be able to buy from the buffet carriage or from an at-seat trolley service.


One carriage on each train will be reserved for a dedicated First Class service, which will include a table at all seats, providing sufficient room for business travellers to work comfortably.
Our new intercity network will also offer some large journey time improvements. For example, between Inverness and the central belt, journeys will be an average of 10-12 minutes quicker, and the fastest journeys between Glasgow and Inverness will fall to below three hours.


The improvements in comfort, facilities, speed, seat availability, luggage space and catering mean that, in effect, we will be providing a completely different service to the one operated today.

 

[Blindtraveler]

this could have been done years ago with Lhcs. I admire them still quoting 2018 as, lets be honest the potential for egg on the face due to non availability of HSTs is high I think we'd all agree?

 

[47802]

this could have been done years ago with Lhcs. I admire them still quoting 2018 as, lets be honest the potential for egg on the face due to non availability of HSTs is high I think we'd all agree?

No given the Government is supposedly looking at making the 21 Electric IEP temporary Bi-Modes unless Hitachi are late with IEP delivery there will be a strong push to get them released.

 

[Altnabreac]

No given the Government is supposedly looking at making the 21 Electric IEP temporary Bi-Modes unless Hitachi are late with IEP delivery there will be a strong push to get them released.

A senior guy from Abellio told me that the contractual arrangement they have to take the HSTs is pretty watertight in terms of the arrival date.

The only concern was potential political interference from the DfT to ignore the contracts if there were disastrous delays with IEP.

I don't think just problems with electrification will delay the arrival however because Bi-Modes can always be used to release the initial HSTs.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Unless the magazine article carries more detail, this announcement doesn't appear to convey anything new? The following has already been released by Abellio, and RAIL Magazine seem to have quoted it almost word for word:

This carefully doesn't mention either power doors or retention toilets, the two most important (and expensive) aspects of the upgrade.

 

[D365]

This carefully doesn't mention either power doors or retention toilets, the two most important (and expensive) aspects of the upgrade.

Not sure what you were reading, but RAIL Magazine does mention about the power door upgrade:

...and the exterior slam doors will be replaced by power-operated ones (in line with the PRM-TSI regulations).

 

[snakeeyes]

are the buffet cars being retained?

 

[34D]

are the buffet cars being retained?

Indeed, is first class being retained?

 

[Grinner]

are the buffet cars being retained?

From the post by Sprinterguy..."The introduction of a galley and buffet area on each train will enable us to improve the onboard catering service significantly. We will use this to showcase the best Scottish food and drink which customers will be able to buy from the buffet carriage or from an at-seat trolley service"
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Indeed, is first class being retained?

Also from Sprinterguy's post....

"One carriage on each train will be reserved for a dedicated First Class service, which will include a table at all seats, providing sufficient room for business travellers to work comfortably"

 

[Altnabreac]

are the buffet cars being retained?

Indeed, is first class being retained?

Both First Class and a Trolley service are Franchise Requirements for the Inter City service so will have to be included. Buffet service is not a compulsory requirement but may well be included.

The numbers in the Franchise specification (see p23) for seats are as follows:

HST 4 Car - 202 standard seats, 232 total seats
HST 5 Car - 276 standard seats, 306 total seats
HST 6 Car - 350 standard seats, 380 total seats
http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk...Redacted Franchise Agreement - CU version.pdf

This possibly implies
1 carriage with 30 first class seats.
1 carriage of 54 standard class seats
2-4 carriages of 74 standard class seats

So you probably have a Buffet in one end coach and train managers office / bike storage / luggage space in the other.

 

[sprinterguy]

So you probably have a Buffet in one end coach and train managers office / bike storage / luggage space in the other.

Agreed, probably with a first class kitchen vehicle at one end in a similar layout to the Chiltern refurbs, which seat 30 in a 2+1 layout, and a refurbished TGS at the other, sandwiching 2 - 4 TSOs.

 

[snakeeyes]

why not make all the sets the same?

 

[47802]

Agreed, probably with a first class kitchen vehicle at one end in a similar layout to the Chiltern refurbs, which seat 30 in a 2+1 layout, and a refurbished TGS at the other, sandwiching 2 - 4 TSOs.

Alternatively they might get rid of the TGS and move the train manager accommodation.

 

[Aictos]

Alternatively they might get rid of the TGS and move the train manager accommodation.

I think Grand Central when they first got the HSTs, they made a cupboard near the buffet carriage the accommodation for the guard not sure if that's still the case though.

 

[bnsf734]

According to the article in Rail Magazine Angel trains have offered 2 alternatives for power doors, a "sliding door (as used on Class 376 Electrostars)" or "a plug door (as fitted to Chiltern Railways Mk3 coaches)"

I haven't seen any details of the sliding door option anywhere else but I cannot imagine cutting big holes in the sides of a Mark 3 coach will do much for its structual integrity, unless they mean fitting sliding doors into the existing doorway but that would also mean a rebuild of the coach ends.

The 2017/2018 introduction seems ambitious as all the coaches will need a rebuild/refurbish before entering service and I seem to recall the Chiltern plug door rebuilds took a while to complete as each coach was slightly different despite being jig-built.

 

[BRX]

I guess the door replacement means there's no hope of any openable windows remaining on the refurbed HSTs?