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Some advice please.... :(

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yorkie

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.... i read on the national rail saying if you are found without a vaild ticket you must be issued a fine ....
Ah, I see the confusion. I concur with NajaB; you're thinking of a Penalty Fare. This is sometimes thought to be a "fine", which it technically and legally isn't, but I can understand how people think that. It is, in fact, far lower in cost than an actual fine would be.

You may be issued with a Penalty Fare (under the circumstances described) if you travel on an EMT service, but not on a XC or Northern service.

I would be rather surprised if you were not able to settle the matter out of court though.
 
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mikeg

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There is also no requirement to be issued with a penalty fare. It's not a case of 'must'. They are given for honest mistakes or acts of carelessness at the discretion of revenue staff. As in law at least you avoided paying the correct fare deliberately (your actions match those of someone who does this)* a penalty fare is not really relevant. It's doubly not relevant as you didn't travel on a penalty fare service. The good news is that as others have said an out of court settlement is likely.

*Most fare dodgers will pay if challenged. But they will take actions exactly like yours to try and 'chance it' without payment. As regards to whether it'll be a byelaws or regulation of railways act case, you'll have to wait for the letter. They'll probably go for the former (certain to succeed) but if they go for the latter it will probably succeed too. Intent in law is judged by words and actions, not what goes on inside your head. But don't worry too much. East midlands trains seem to settle out of court quite often. Either way I'm sure you've learned the value of buying before you board.

When it comes to responding to the letter be apologetic and factual, not defensive. There should be a few main points: what you did (without further incriminating yourself or making excuses), sorry and it won't happen again, an offer to pay off any costs and the fare outstanding, and once again sorry. Whilst it would not ordinarily be necessary to get a solicitor involved in a relatively simple case such as this, if you know someone who is one who is willing to help you, I'd say so much the better.
 
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Vlaspak

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Thank you guys you are giving me courage and a lot of info. I will update once i have news.
 

mikeg

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Also do you normally get the train? If you do you will probably find a season ticket will save you money. They're available from weekly and also have the added advantage that you won't have to buy a ticket every single day.
 

Vlaspak

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No i dont travel regularly because it depends with whom i will take a ride to work. So i basically take the tram where i can take a ticket on board etc. But thanks for the advice.
 

455driver

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Why the rush? Daytime from Sheffield there are 5/6 trains an hour to Chesterfield, if you miss one then merely wait 10 minutes or so for the next one, gives you plenty of time to get a ticket....

Cynical mode-

Because I know that train wont have a ticket check carried out but the next one will! ;)


OP, a fine can only be issued by a Court, what you are on about is a penalty fare which couldn't be issued because it isn't a penalty fare area.
 

Vlaspak

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I did not have in mind that if i take the next train i would be checked mate. We are talking 5.10 pounds and plus i am from another country, that came here to work not to break the law especially when i am not 100% sure what are my rights here.
 

island

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I did not have in mind that if i take the next train i would be checked mate. We are talking 5.10 pounds and plus i am from another country, that came here to work not to break the law especially when i am not 100% sure what are my rights here.

I think you should be considering your responsibilities rather than your rights.

The law of this country, where you are a guest, requires that you buy a ticket before joining a train if the facilities to do so exist. You have broken the law.
 

70014IronDuke

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I think you should be considering your responsibilities rather than your rights.

The law of this country, where you are a guest, requires that you buy a ticket before joining a train if the facilities to do so exist. You have broken the law.

While I agree that it might be a wise attitude to act in a somewhat modest manner when not in one's own country of origin, if the OP is an EU citizen, he is legally no more a guest than any native born citizen.

He is entitled to the same rights (and is expected to take on the responsibilities of course) as a local, just as any Brit who decides to live in Italy or Latvia.

Whether one actually receives equal treatment across the Union is a moot point, of course - I would not wish to be fighting a local in court in some countries - but personally I've certainly been on the receiving end of especially good treatment ( recognised as a foreigner) more often than bad when abroad in the EU.
 

najaB

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While I agree that it might be a wise attitude to act in a somewhat modest manner when not in one's own country of origin, if the OP is an EU citizen, he is legally no more a guest than any native born citizen.
I agree with your sentiment, but the OP played the 'naive foreigner' card. Once played it can't be withdrawn. :)
 

Vlaspak

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Wow no no i dont want to play the "oh poor me i dont anything". No way. I am responsible for my actions if even i am not aware of something. Will wait the letter and see what will happen. Although i will try calling them next week to see if they have any news.
 

najaB

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Wow no no i dont want to play the "oh poor me i dont anything". No way. I am responsible for my actions if even i am not aware of something. Will wait the letter and see what will happen. Although i will try calling them next week to see if they have any news.
Okay, well don't even mention being from another country in your letter as it really doesn't make a difference as far as EMT is concerned.
 

Vlaspak

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I dont think it would make a difference to any company. Do they have a standard admin fee etc like northern or they are completely different?
 

najaB

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Do they have a standard admin fee etc like northern or they are completely different?
As far as I know they judge each case on its own merits rather than operate a failure to pay policy. Unlike Northern they operate an official penalty fares scheme, though it doesn't apply to other operator's services.
 

island

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While I agree that it might be a wise attitude to act in a somewhat modest manner when not in one's own country of origin, if the OP is an EU citizen, he is legally no more a guest than any native born citizen.

He is entitled to the same rights (and is expected to take on the responsibilities of course) as a local, just as any Brit who decides to live in Italy or Latvia.

That is quite wrong. Those resident here who are not citizens of the United Kingdom can be deported and/or refused (further) entry for criminal conduct under certain circumstances.

This is unlikely to be an issue to the OP in this particular case, but it is worth pointing out that the UK has a residual right to remove/refuse entry even to EU citizens under certain circumstances.
 

Vlaspak

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So guys EMT send me a letter saying that my offence is Byelaw offence and offered me to pay 75.1=Operational Costs + Admin Fee + Ticket. Never felt better paying a fee :). I will call them and do it over the phone the payment as they provide information regarding this.
 

6Gman

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So guys EMT send me a letter saying that my offence is Byelaw offence and offered me to pay 75.1=Operational Costs + Admin Fee + Ticket. Never felt better paying a fee :). I will call them and do it over the phone the payment as they provide information regarding this.

Sounds a good outcome.
 

najaB

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So guys EMT send me a letter saying that my offence is Byelaw offence and offered me to pay 75.1=Operational Costs + Admin Fee + Ticket. Never felt better paying a fee :). I will call them and do it over the phone the payment as they provide information regarding this.
That's good to hear. And even better that they claimed so little in costs.
 

cjmillsnun

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So guys EMT send me a letter saying that my offence is Byelaw offence and offered me to pay 75.1=Operational Costs + Admin Fee + Ticket. Never felt better paying a fee :). I will call them and do it over the phone the payment as they provide information regarding this.

That's a good outcome and hopefully lesson learned.
 
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