Solutions for stations with part time lifts?

[Bletchleyite]

There are a number of stations around the country that are accessible only when the booking office is open due to potential vandalism issues with the lifts (one assumes - it surely can't be about emergency calls because most lifts use a call centre for that purpose).

I'd propose a RADAR key call "button" as a good solution here.

Correct, the ticket office shuts around 7pm and departures finish around midnight or so. One platform (the Huddersfield bound one) has step free access so I think the "solution" is a double back via Leeds or Huddersfield if step free access is required. Not an ideal solution by any means

I don't think a RADAR key would ever be the answer, since so many people have them. It isn't a particularly easy problem to solve, really. Either way, we are getting a bit wayward from the topic

They are widely available, but the issue is the same as toilets. Do you suggest that they aren't effective for that purpose? We are not looking to prevent anyone who wishes to obtain a key from using the lifts, simply to discourage vandalism which tends to be oppportunistic - vandals won't pay for a RADAR key simply to smash up a toilet/lift, which is why the scheme works.

 

[starlight73]

I can’t find any statistics — it looks like RADAR keys do a good job of reducing vandalism but a small number of people do use them for wrong purposes so they don’t avoid all vandalism.

I found this useful article with some background information. (Essex Council have introduced a custom key instead of RADAR because of the risk of vandalism of expensive access equipment in their accessible toilets)

To lock – or not to lock accessible toilets?

This article can now be found in another part of our site. Click here to read about locking accessible toilets.

accessible-toilets.co.uk

perhaps a side-by-side solution would be to also have an intercom with a video, so people can call them and they can unlock the lift remotely. This would account for disabled people who don’t have RADAR keys, people with luggage and buggies, etc.

but a straightforward solution would be to invest in staffing the station from first to last train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Merseyrail use the intercom thing for toilets, notably.

 

[edwin_m]

Maybe scope for a machine vision system to detect anti-social behaviour via the CCTV cameras? The problem though would be the length of time it would take for the police to respond, so it would down to matching the perps with known local suspects.

 

[HSTEd]

Merseyrail use the intercom thing for toilets, notably.

The one time I actually had cause to try and use a Merseyrail toilet intercom, noone answered.

But as we all know, anecdotal evidence is of very limited value

 

[AngusH]

Do vandals buy tickets?

(As a genuine question)

If they mostly don't pay then some kind of ticket barcode scanner could do the job maybe?

Only to get into the lift obviously, the passenger can get out without worry.

I'm guessing these stations don't have gate lines at that time?

 

[Meerkat]

First question would be why they are switched off - if its because they dont want people stuck in lifts at unattended stations then the suggested solutions don't fix the problem (though are station staff able to do anything about a stuck lift?)
Radar keys might solve the issue for the 'officially' disabled, but they aren't the only people who need lifts, so an intercom system would be better.

If unattended use isnt an issue and its just about ASB/vandalism couldnt they be linked to the trains - they only operate ten minutes either side of a train stopping?

 

[Bletchleyite]

It won't be to do with stuck lifts because lift emergency call buttons connect you to a remote call centre, and there are plenty of stations where the lifts are available when unstaffed.

 

[Wychwood93]

It won't be to do with stuck lifts because lift emergency call buttons connect you to a remote call centre, and there are plenty of stations where the lifts are available when unstaffed.

And these stations are? An emergency button with a response time of?

 

[The exile]

And these stations are? An emergency button with a response time of?

Presumably exactly the same as the response time for any lift - there can be very few places where someone qualified to do anything other than keep up a conversation shouted into the lift shaft is on site.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And these stations are?

Bletchley's lifts are available 24/7. Yes, it has a depot there but the station is unstaffed at night. I'm pretty sure Leighton Buzzard's lifts are available when unstaffed too.

All Metrolink stations that have lifts bar low single figures that have railway booking offices.

An emergency button with a response time of?

How many booking offices have staff skilled in repairing lifts?

 

[WelshBluebird]

And these stations are?

Every single unstaffed station with a lift. Of which there's at least a few. Ashley Down, Dinas Rhondda and Patchway are the ones I know about but there will be lots more. I don't know if those lifts are available overnight whilst trains aren't running but certainly they are available during the day without any staff at the stations.

 

[edwin_m]

On a station project I'm involved in, the lifts will have battery backup which is enough to get them to ground level and release any trapped occupants if the power fails. I don't know if this is universal for modern lift systems.

 

[TUC]

There is an underlying patronising assumption behind part-time lifts that disabled passengers are people who only travel for leisure purposes in the main part of the day, don't go out in the dark, and certainly don't work shifts and strange hours. Lifts are part of the normal operation of stations and a core part of accessibility. They should be available all of the times that a station is open.

 

[Indigo Soup]

There is an underlying patronising assumption behind part-time lifts that disabled passengers are people who only travel for leisure purposes in the main part of the day, don't go out in the dark, and certainly don't work shifts and strange hours. Lifts are part of the normal operation of stations and a core part of accessibility. They should be available all of the times that a station is open.

I wasn't aware of intentionally part-time lifts (as opposed to ones that keep breaking down) being a thing. But it strikes me that they're another case where it's easier to punish the innocent by removing crime-prone facilities, rather than punish the guilty parties.

 

[LowLevel]

Where I am outside of staffed hours the lifts have mostly been converted to a system whereby holding the call button connects you to a service centre contracted in and they complete the lift call if it appears to be genuine. How reliable it is I don't know as I rarely use railway lifts, but it is certainly in place at Spalding, Kidsgrove, Loughborough and probably others.

 

[Mike395]

Where I am outside of staffed hours the lifts have mostly been converted to a system whereby holding the call button connects you to a service centre contracted in and they complete the lift call if it appears to be genuine. How reliable it is I don't know as I rarely use railway lifts, but it is certainly in place at Spalding, Kidsgrove, Loughborough and probably others.

The lifts at Bedford (and I believe other GTR stations north of London too) also use this system

 

[Halifaxlad]

How can it even be legal to turn off lifts ?

The simpliest answer is to turn them on and deal with the antisocial behavoir!

 

[Bletchleyite]

How can it even be legal to turn off lifts ?

It certainly strikes me as something that would seem to be challengeable under equality law. Perhaps Mr Paulley might find himself in need of use of such a station, and as a result might consider making such a challenge?

 

[Meerkat]

How can it even be legal to turn off lifts ?

The simpliest answer is to turn them on and deal with the antisocial behavoir!

And then they would be unavailable during the day whilst the results of the anti-social behaviour are sorted out.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The reason the bridge at the station that started this discussion (Dewsbury) is open all night, is because it's a public right of way linking a housing estate with the town centre. The lifts were only installed in the last twenty years, but Dewsbury doesn't do well for anti-social behaviour so they're locked up overnight to prevent vandalism.
Step-free access along the public right of way is maintained (just as it was prior to the lifts being installed) with an alternative route via the Wellington Road flyover (the road bridge which straddles the platforms).

If the locals are more well-behaved, being unstaffed doesn't prohibit lifts. Low Moor has no staff presence but the footbridge has lifts to both platforms.

 

[Snow1964]

ORR has today released a report on lifts

https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/media/ljncwshc/passenger-lifts-factsheet-2024-25-rail-periods-1-7.pdf

23% of lifts had faults due to misuse and vandalism, the figure is much lower than faults due to wear and tear (lack of preventative maintenance?), and appears 1 in 7 faults were due to outside factors (eg flooding)

There is also data on entrapments due to faults. On average took 49 minutes to release occupants (which makes me wonder if having staff around actually gets people released quickly). There was a 42% jump in entrapments that took over 75 minutes to resolve.

The data also shows 186 lifts (up 41%) were out of service for over a week, which is rather inconsistent with ideals of access.

 

[styles]

The one time I actually had cause to try and use a Merseyrail toilet intercom, noone answered.

But as we all know, anecdotal evidence is of very limited value

I've had a no-answer situation when using the 'emergency' button on a customer information point, so this doesn't surprise me.

To my surprise though, at something like 10pm at night at Kingussie station, ScotRail did answer my information point call asking about the Caledonian Sleeper service status.