Solar powered third rail

[Gerard2100]

Is it possible to connect solar dc directly to third rail dc? Is the amount of power required governed by the number of trains running at any one time ? If so how many trains could run off a 10 Mw solar field?

 

[Sebastian O]

Already in progress in Aldershot.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....e-is-worlds-first-to-be-powered-by-solar-farm

 

[30907]

Already in progress in Aldershot.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....e-is-worlds-first-to-be-powered-by-solar-farm

Talks about powering "signalling and lights" (sic!) at this stage.

 

[Elecman]

Is it possible to connect solar dc directly to third rail dc? Is the amount of power required governed by the number of trains running at any one time ? If so how many trains could run off a 10 Mw solar field?

Not many depending on the size of train

 

[Bald Rick]

Is it possible to connect solar dc directly to third rail dc? Is the amount of power required governed by the number of trains running at any one time ? If so how many trains could run off a 10 Mw solar field?

Depends on the train, but 2 x 12 car Class 700s at 1300 on a sunny day in June.

Assuming you can find a suitable 50 acre field close enough to the line, that is.

 

[AndrewE]

Depends on the train, but 2 x 12 car Class 700s at 1300 on a sunny day in June.

Assuming you can find a suitable 40 acre field close enough to the line, that is.

...and continuously all the way along the route. Back of a fag-packet sum says it's pointless, and the signalling needs a reliable power supply (but very small by comparison with traction needs) so why waste resources - and farmland - when so much more power is really required.
Better to invest in solar thermal for where relatively low-grade heat is needed (station water heating etc) than to pretend you can run trains with solar energy. A pendolino take 5.95 megaWatts... I think my sums showed that with UK solar gain http://www.reuk.co.uk/wordpress/solar/solar-insolation/ you would need a kilometer width of panels each side of the track to power the WCML - when the sun shone!

 

[158756]

...and continuously all the way along the route. Back of a fag-packet sum says it's pointless, and the signalling needs a reliable power supply (but very small by comparison with traction needs) so why waste resources - and farmland - when so much more power is really required.
Better to invest in solar thermal for where relatively low-grade heat is needed (station water heating etc) than to pretend you can run trains with solar energy. A pendolino take 5.95 megaWatts... I think my sums showed that with UK solar gain http://www.reuk.co.uk/wordpress/solar/solar-insolation/ you would need a kilometer width of panels each side of the track to power the WCML - when the sun shone!

I don't know what area of the UK is covered by solar panels, but in the middle of a summer day existing installations can provide over 20% of UK electricity, so clearly it is possible to run a train off it. Any claim of running the railway on solar (or wind, as the Dutch railways already claim) is going to be a bit of a gimmick though, when it isn't generating enough you're obviously just using whatever's on the grid, probably largely gas.

 

[Bald Rick]

...and continuously all the way along the route. Back of a fag-packet sum says it's pointless, and the signalling needs a reliable power supply (but very small by comparison with traction needs) so why waste resources - and farmland - when so much more power is really required.
Better to invest in solar thermal for where relatively low-grade heat is needed (station water heating etc) than to pretend you can run trains with solar energy. A pendolino take 5.95 megaWatts... I think my sums showed that with UK solar gain http://www.reuk.co.uk/wordpress/solar/solar-insolation/ you would need a kilometer width of panels each side of the track to power the WCML - when the sun shone!

Agreed re the principle, but not sure of the maths.

At peak output 1 sq km of solar panels in the U.K. will generate around 100MW. Even at half peak rating, then with 1km of solar panels each side of the line you would get 100MW per km of route. That would be 16 Pendolinos at full power per kilometre of route. Given that at the shortest 3 minute headways the trains are typically 10 km apart, and headway usage is variable on all 4 lines (and train station are rarely on full power), I’d say your calculations are out by a factor of 10.

 

[Bald Rick]

I don't know what area of the UK is covered by solar panels, but in the middle of a summer day existing installations can provide over 20% of UK electricity, so clearly it is possible to run a train off it. Any claim of running the railway on solar (or wind, as the Dutch railways already claim) is going to be a bit of a gimmick though, when it isn't generating enough you're obviously just using whatever's on the grid, probably largely gas.

In the middle of a summer’s day Solar can (and does) produce almost 50% of U.K. electricity. Albeit only for an hour or so! However, typically it will generate around 6-8% of U.K. electricity in the summer, rather less in winter, obviously, with an annual average of around 4%.

Wind is much more useful though: so far this year wind has generated nearly a third of all U.K. electricity, which is more than gas.

 

[158756]

In the middle of a summer’s day Solar can (and does) produce almost 50% of U.K. electricity. Albeit only for an hour or so! However, typically it will generate around 6-8% of U.K. electricity in the summer, rather less in winter, obviously, with an annual average of around 4%.

Wind is much more useful though: so far this year wind has generated nearly a third of all U.K. electricity, which is more than gas.

I think 50% is an overestimate - news reports last summer suggest the record for UK solar production is somewhere in the region of 9.5GW, which is more like 25%. Wind has been doing particularly well so far this year, especially the last few weeks, but there are still days when it generates very little, so at times everyone's using gas whatever they claim.

 

[Bald Rick]

I think 50% is an overestimate - news reports last summer suggest the record for UK solar production is somewhere in the region of 9.5GW, which is more like 25%. Wind has been doing particularly well so far this year, especially the last few weeks, but there are still days when it generates very little, so at times everyone's using gas whatever they claim.

Demand in the middle of a summer Sunday (ok, I’m cheating) can be around 25-30GW. The 9.5GW is only a modelled number based on known metered supplies, and AIUI doesn’t take into account a large proportion of domestic installations. So whilst I agree on reflection that 50% is a bit much, it’s certainly well over a third.

 

[Gerard2100]

Depends on the train, but 2 x 12 car Class 700s at 1300 on a sunny day in June.

Assuming you can find a suitable 50 acre field close enough to the line, that is.

Apologies,I should have mentioned that the rail system would be in the Caribbean,with average 12 hrs of sunshine per day.