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So where are we with electification?

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Mordac

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So there have been a few discussions, both here and in the press, about how the new clearance standards are not EU imposed after all.

If that is actually true, couldn't the problem be solved by the Secretary of State introducing a single page bill in Parliament to restore the old standard? What am I missing here?
 
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furnessvale

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So there have been a few discussions, both here and in the press, about how the new clearance standards are not EU imposed after all.

If that is actually true, couldn't the problem be solved by the Secretary of State introducing a single page bill in Parliament to restore the old standard? What am I missing here?

The only thing you are missing is the outcry if and when someone gets fried on lower clearance wires now that a new standard has been set.
 

HSTEd

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Want to hazard a guess at the % of renewable on the grid in Q2 2016.....


24.9%.

Ah yes, the magical definition of renewable that uses hydro and 'biomass' to inflate the values for something commonly associated with wind and solar.
By this measureDrax is a renewable power station.
If you refer to wind and solar - what is commonly refered to as renewable power in this context. Then for Q2 2016 we are at 10.88TWh out of 78.28TWh generated.
That puts us at about 14%.

Not 25%.
And since biomass is not really sustainable in the long run and hydro can't expand as there is no more capacity - making further progress wil lbe very difficult.

I will freely admin this is an average figure but even the worst fears of intermittency are being blown away

You ain't seen nothing yet.
Rebadging coal stations as renewable stations to cover the short fall from wind is not a sustainable long term strategy.
Just look at Germany, where the grid is in a state of near collapse and the subsidies for renewables are a bigger component of bills than the wholesale price of electricity.

The rule of thumb is that a grid can easily absorb unreliable power up to about its capacity factor before it starts to cause issues.
Tidal is unusual in that it is extremely reliable even if it is intermittant and thus special steps can be taken to integrate it. For example you can have an Economy 7 tarrif that is planned years in advance to shift around the day in time with it and still use it for storage heaters practically as it will always arrive every 12.5 hours (on a ebb only barrage) or every 6.25 hours (o a dual generation barrage).
You can also easily turn the neap component into a baseload generation with only a few hours of pumped storage.

With pumping the neap-peak tidal differences are relatively small, and also fully predictable.
Also because of the extreme lifespan of a barrage if we were used index linked government debt to fund it it comes out at ludicrously cheap. The capital repayment charge is essentially nothing.

EDIT:

To put that 10.88TWh for Wind and Solar in Q2 2016 into context.
In Q1 2016 [no Q2 figure easily available] Bruce Nuclear Generating Station in Ontario achieved a capacity factor of 88% with a nameplate capacity of 6,232MWe, which translates as a production of 24 TWh.

So all the wind turbines and solar panels in the UK produced less than half what one site in Canada produced using nuclear fission.
Wind turbines are a joke.
 
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Phil.

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The only thing you are missing is the outcry if and when someone gets fried on lower clearance wires now that a new standard has been set.

If the clearances remain as they are now and as they have been for the past fifty years no-one is going to get fried.
 

HSTEd

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So there have been a few discussions, both here and in the press, about how the new clearance standards are not EU imposed after all.

If that is actually true, couldn't the problem be solved by the Secretary of State introducing a single page bill in Parliament to restore the old standard? What am I missing here?

The railway industry will now find out what the nuclear industry has learned since the 80s.
The regulatory ratchet goes only one way. All attempts to reverse it are futile.
There will be much screaming about "profit before lives" if anyone is ever injured by electrification built "substandardly".
So the politicians won't dare risk it.
 

HSTEd

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The number of non suicide electrocutions on the railway each year is in single figures.
As far as this forum can tell (we covered this is on the North Downs thread) that is dominated by tresspassers on third rail.
 

YorkshireBear

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The final paragraph of the quoted post refers.
No-one is in any danger. Once again the H&S desk jockeys with their fevered imaginations are calling the shots.

Only because no one will challenge them.
 

snowball

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There's an interesting piece by Christian Wolmar in RAIL 815, pp. 38-9, blaming project delays and cost escalation on the ideology of "contract everything out" which has been a predominant theme in management theory for several decades now.
 

coppercapped

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There's an interesting piece by Christian Wolmar in RAIL 815, pp. 38-9, blaming project delays and cost escalation on the ideology of "contract everything out" which has been a predominant theme in management theory for several decades now.

How does he think that railways were built in the first place?
 

DynamicSpirit

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How does he think that railways were built in the first place?

In a fairly haphazard manner with little regard to safety and resulting in an unsustainable network with duplicate lines all over the place and little thought for interchanges? And with quite a few companies going bust along the way thanks in part to jumping on bandwagons and lack of strategic thinking? ;)
 

snowball

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There's an interesting piece by Christian Wolmar in RAIL 815, pp. 38-9, blaming project delays and cost escalation on the ideology of "contract everything out" which has been a predominant theme in management theory for several decades now.

How does he think that railways were built in the first place?

His argument is partly about the need to retain corporate memory, which was obviously not relevant to the first railways.
 

swt_passenger

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There's an interesting piece by Christian Wolmar in RAIL 815, pp. 38-9, blaming project delays and cost escalation on the ideology of "contract everything out" which has been a predominant theme in management theory for several decades now.

He's quite fortunate that RAIL still give him a platform for his opinions by contracting out their articles. :D
 

Olaf

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What's to stop the government cutting back on these. Trans pennine must be high cost with all those hills.
Those bimodes must look attractive to politicians.
K

There is only political commitment for these electrification schemes, there is no funding. It will not be known until the funding round for CP6 is completed if they will go ahead before 2024.
 
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