So preventable, why isn't this an outrage?

[yorkie]

More people died in this incident than the Hatfield crash in 2000.

The driver had a previous conviction for drink driving.

What am I talking about? Chances are many people reading this won't know, because it's not that prominent in the news. I'm talking about this car crash that happened on Friday.

Imagine the uproar if a train driver was the cause of a crash and that driver had previously been caught drink driving?

On the BBC's "On this day" page for 17 October, the 2nd most important event was Hatfield. One thing I can guarantee, is that 7 March "On this Day" page won't mention the car crash; it will be forgotten by the media within a week at the most (probably less).

After Hatfield, speed restrictions were introduced all over the network. Yet, after this devestating car crash, will drink drivers be banned? No. Will checks be made on the competence of drivers who could kill any of us at any time? No, of course not.

Look on the front page of the BBC news site and the revelation that Mr Brainless was a convicted drink driver gets a tiny mention.

The fact is, the roads are a death trap because anyone who is totally irresponsible and convicted of being reckless is allowed to drive a car, and absolutely nothing is done to stop these people killing others. And the media doesn't really care.

The only killer driver I can think of who has got a half-decent sentence was Gary Hart, and even that wasn't long enough and the media had the cheek to give him publicity and there was even a TV programme where he said how harshly he was treated. And guess what? Yes, you got it. He's allowed to drive again as he was only banned from driving for 5 years.

Sad, pathetic and totally wrong.

Now, why does the DfT want buses to replace trains? Ah yes because buses are cheaper. Why are buses cheaper? Road transport is so cheap because, quite frankly, it's extremely dangerous in comparison. The DfT and the HSE don't actually care for the safety of people, they accept that deaths occur in transportation, in fact they even ensure it's encouraged by making sure convicted dangerous drivers are allowed to drive again, they just don't care...... providing it happens on the roads of course.

 

[Nick W]

In this case, it does seem that the person responsible is now dead and it's not policy to prosecute a corpse.

Unfortunately, there are many cases where Government policy has lead to increased road deaths but this is just swept under the carpet. I believe one councillor famously said that he wouldn't repair potholes because they were "traffic calming", and then a motorbike rider was killed by a rather large pothole.

 

[Nym]

If you wanna start...

I can start on the abuse of models in the adult industry which is ruining more lifes...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

In this case, it does seem that the person responsible is now dead and it's not policy to prosecute a corpse.

Unfortunately, there are many cases where Government policy has lead to increased road deaths but this is just swept under the carpet. I believe one councillor famously said that he wouldn't repair potholes because they were "traffic calming", and then a motorbike rider was killed by a rather large pothole.

that is discusting and violating the council's duty of care...

 

[TheSlash]

More people died in this incident than the Hatfield crash in 2000.

The driver had a previous conviction for drink driving.

Sorry but i fail to see your point. He had a conviction for drink driving, but it doesn't mean he was over the limit at the time of the crash?
Your arguement means that every train driver who has a SPAD or other safety critical incident should also be banned from train driving for life?

 

[yorkie]

Sorry but i fail to see your point. He had a conviction for drink driving, but it doesn't mean he was over the limit at the time of the crash?
Your arguement means that every train driver who has a SPAD or other safety critical incident should also be banned from train driving for life?

No, I don't agree with that. As for my point, if a train driver was convicted of the same offence, then he/she'd not be driving trains again.

 

[Techniquest]

FFS...

It's bad enough it's on the news for the last THREE days. It was a crash on a minor road, some people have died, can we PLEASE stop covering it as if it was the biggest thing to ever happen?

Obviously, I feel for the families affected by the crash, but to go on, and on, and on...What possible benefit is there in that?

Slowest news week ever it would appear...:roll::roll::roll:

 

[Nym]

I'm just wondering if anyone who's posted in here has ever seen the real results of a major RTC up close?

 

[Coxster]

"The driver of a car involved in a head-on collision which killed seven people had a conviction for drink driving, it is believed."

That would imply, to me at least, that the BBC are yet to have this detail confirmed anyway! This was, of course, also just one of many accidents that happen each day in which people are killed.

 

[Nym]

Sorry, but it's just the blasey attitude of the room to RTCs that are a bit irritating...

 

[Coxster]

Thing is, Nym, there has been a bus vs. train incident over in Argentinia in which at least 18 people have been killed and 47 injured. In a way it's similar to the above story, yet it doesn't get a big mention here despite the much higher numbers of injuries and deaths. The vehicle at fault was the bus (or in the above story the Peugeot) which went through a crossing that had lowered/lowering barriers and got hit by a train, killing people inside the bus (or the Peugeot in the above story) and also killing another innocent road user (or in the above story the Passat).

What I'm trying to say is that there are many accidents on the roads each day in which people are killed. Surely every death (whether the ones reported or the hundreds that are not) is tragic - not just those that the media wish to write about and the one or two that make it onto this forum? Working where I do I see loads of accidents each day on the HA/TfL CCTV cameras, and often hear about what happened to the people within the vehicles, and have seen occasions when the paramedics could do no more for someone. We all know it's not a nice thing, but it happens.

(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7286435.stm)

 

[Metroland]

Well the media's attitude has always been selective – it regular campaigns for as many safety devices as possible to be fitted the railways, and removing as many as possible on the roads. Quite ironic considering more people has been killed on the roads since the second world war than British soldiers killed in the war.

The answer is to give up reading so much crap in the first place.

 

[Nym]

indeed, but I just don't like the way people throw these numbers around about people being 'dead' or 'killed' etc...

So please try to be respectful, no-one ever ceases to be a person.

Men, Women, Sons, Daughters, Mothers, Fathers, Brothers, Sisters... They're all people and no-one should jump to conclusions about alcohol, drugs or portion blame.

Especially annoying, and not just from here, but from everyone is the so what attitude to tragic goings on, has anyone here ever seen an RTC?

No-one should be detached, some people have to be, and I know it eats away inside at them having to just get on with things.

Back to what I was saying before, the abuse of adult models IS affecting a lot more citizens every day, but we never hear of it in the news!

 

[Respite]

Natural selection at it's best.

No not exactly, metroland summed it up best really. The railway runs a tight ship, rules & regs, drink & drugs policy, signalling, OTMRS, intensive training (9 months at least for a driver, 225 hours of driving under instruction compared to whatever little a bus driver gets).etc etc.

Compared to the "test" that enables you to get behind a wheel of a car, well thats a joke as well. The oil companys & car makers try & claim that a car is freedom. When actually the minute you get behind the wheel (or in a car) you are entering probably the most dangerous place there is. Its an ungoverned world on the roads, no one cares or thinks about what they are doing. The mental state of the average road user is shocking. I have to prep every train I take off depot, how many car drivers even bother to give their car a slight glance over before putting the key in & driving off. Don't get me wrong, I love to drive cars, I restore old cars & used to until recently do rallying in a Peugeot 205 GTi.
As for being respectful, well no one likes to hear of death but that ironically is life. The case in question of this lad , well I feel sorry for the people he hit, innocent's maybe or not, they still got in a car. But the idiots in the 306, well I dont give a cr*p about them. I've seen the type & quite frankly removing them from the gene pool was probably the best thing that happened all week.

 

[Nym]

Well, I was trying not to start on that...

I still get in a car with some very insane drivers, but I don't like it, I use car transport for nessesity, somtimes with drivers that I wouldn't even trust to orginise a larger up in a pub!
The amount of times I've told pepole driving me that 90mph in staffordshire isn't impressive, for one I've done 125 in staffordshire, and for another, I've been taken on the roads by a profetional driver, that knows how to drive fast, without crashing.
I now have physical difficulty getting into a car with somone else driving, (appart from my partner, a profetional driver, and my mum (no, I don't trust my dad's driving))
I have no problems flying (just the sudden stop at the bottom), I know a few pilots and it's as intensive as train driving.

I do not agree one bit with any of this country's polcies on training road vehicle drivers in any way, it's harder than it used to be, but the're letting them on the motorways with no training on how to drive motorways!
The main problem though is theres still pepole driving on the UK road network legaly that sent off tokens off a packet of corn flakes to get a driving licence!

Rant over for now...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Rant Continued...

I think there should be a lot more training for road vehicle drivers! All i had to do to be allowed to drive on the public roads was send off a form and pay £55 to the DVLA! Even that doesn't stop iligal drivers.

Also the drink drive policy is THICK!

If you've ingested any form of alcahol, in any quantities, you shouldn't be allowed to drive, this is how the spanish system works, and I like it! They also require 6 months of night classes to get the equivilant of our provisional licence, and you MUST be trained by a goverment trained and appointed driving instructor, who is tested randomly by the Guardia Civil, Civil Guard, Military Police...

And some pepole will try to blame the roads, the roads aren't a problem, I can drive some of the most complex and 'difficult' roads of East Yorkshire without crashing! and I only have some 100hours driving under my belt... Theres no such thing as a bad road, a bad corner or a bad surface, theres only ever one thing that causes (95% of times) accidents:

BAD DRIVERS!

 

[Respite]

196mph in shropshire Nym, but that was on my own & away from anyone to hurt.
As for flying, well used to love it. Flown in loads of military planes/heli's but flying in these budget airline things scares the **** out of me. Some run down 737 with panels hanging off & hydrolic fluid pumping out over the wings from leaky pipes..........yeah great!

 

[Nym]

196mph in shropshire Nym, but that was on my own & away from anyone to hurt.
As for flying, well used to love it. Flown in loads of military planes/heli's but flying in these budget airline things scares the **** out of me. Some run down 737 with panels hanging off & hydrolic fluid pumping out over the wings from leaky pipes..........yeah great!

Been in a Lynx and SeaKing, Lynx was fun, SeaKing wasn't, anyway, my record is a closed airfeild near doncaster at 140mph...

I was sat next to a paramedic driving at the time btw... knew how to drive at them speeds, the only pepole on this planet that should be alowed to speed
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And for the pedantic among us:

I'll include in the above:
Blue:
Police, Fire, Ambulance, National Blood Service, Coastguard, RNLI, Mountain Rescue, Cave Rescue, Fell Rescue, National Emergency Resp. Team, Bomb Disposal, Military Police, and anyone I missed off
Green: Doctors
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also in blue: Hospital, Nursing and Medical Emergency Staff Transfers
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
by the way, the're all only allowed to do 80 as a maximum on any public carrigeway last time I checked

 

[Coxster]

by the way, the're all only allowed to do 80 as a maximum on any public carrigeway last time I checked

Yet you just went and said you were in one travelling at 125mph. What you're saying is the emergency services are perfectly entitled to break their already higher-than-normal speed limit? :? Seems a bit strange if you ask me.

 

[Respite]

Yet you just went and said you were in one travelling at 125mph. What you're saying is the emergency services are perfectly entitled to break their already higher-than-normal speed limit? :? Seems a bit strange if you ask me.

He did say closed airfield on that one mate...
Or did I miss a post.

 

[Nym]

Yet you just went and said you were in one travelling at 125mph. What you're saying is the emergency services are perfectly entitled to break their already higher-than-normal speed limit? :? Seems a bit strange if you ask me.

I also said that this was on a closed airfield... albeit in another forum, but I'll say now, it was part of a training exercise to go as fast as possible
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

He did say closed airfield on that one mate...

Beat me to it...

 

[Coxster]

I also said that this was on a closed airfield... albeit in another forum

Errrr, okay then.

 

[Respite]

Hey I just read this thread, who knows what was edited......I dont care at the end of the day..........hock:

 

[Nym]

Errrr, okay then.

Another forum within this set of forums...

 

[Dougman]

<snip>
I'll include in the above:
Blue:
Police, Fire, Ambulance, National Blood Service, Coastguard, RNLI, Mountain Rescue, Cave Rescue, Fell Rescue, National Emergency Resp. Team, Bomb Disposal, Military Police, and anyone I missed off
<snip>
Green: Doctors

I would be very concerned at a doctor on a green light breaking any traffic rules since they're not allowed nor trained to.

 

[Nym]

none of the above are alowed to break traffic laws, they just change slightly...

 

[djw1981]

I would be very concerned at a doctor on a green light breaking any traffic rules since they're not allowed nor trained to.

But the emergency doctors in an area can, if their agency so chooses, employ ex Police drivers, who while not breaking the traffic laws, are trained to drive at high speed (ie the maximum on a section of road) and brake later for corners.

For this reason, Doctors on emergency call out (Medic1 from A&E etc) are normally given a blue & 2 escort or take in the Police Car. If Given an escort, the driver is told to drive as close to the Police Car as they feel able, and that they will not be prosecuted for breaking the speed limit, but they are responsible for driving safely and with due attention to other road users. The same applies to transplant services, and ambulances under escort.

Ambulance polcie and Fire drivers are still responsible for their driving, and any accident will reflect on their own licence, and they personally can/will be prosecuted if found at fault.

 

[Nym]

But the emergency doctors in an area can, if their agency so chooses, employ ex Police drivers, who while not breaking the traffic laws, are trained to drive at high speed (ie the maximum on a section of road) and brake later for corners.

For this reason, Doctors on emergency call out (Medic1 from A&E etc) are normally given a blue & 2 escort or take in the Police Car. If Given an escort, the driver is told to drive as close to the Police Car as they feel able, and that they will not be prosecuted for breaking the speed limit, but they are responsible for driving safely and with due attention to other road users. The same applies to transplant services, and ambulances under escort.

Ambulance polcie and Fire drivers are still responsible for their driving, and any accident will reflect on their own licence, and they personally can/will be prosecuted if found at fault.

Speeding isn't reflected on your licence as an ambulance driver, well not in the old TEANYAS area or the new YAS areas anyway, they get the fine but not the point on their licence, so long as they go to court and defend their actions...

Generaly if a doctor or nurse needs to get somwhere quickly, if they do it a lot, the'll do the blue light course and be autharised, then steal a fast response car of some sorts, or if not, the're passenger in an ambulace, that knows how to get somwhere quickly.

Don't know if anyone knows these places, but an ambulance can do an emergency transfer from Bridlington to Middlsbrough in 45mins, and the're not easy roads (the coastal route)

 

[TheSlash]

There is a cotton wool view to speed in this country. Apparently at 71 mph, a driver forgets everything they know about driving and should be prosecuted to the extent of the law because a NIMBY says so.
I think that when we run out of oil and only the select few can drive, everybody should retake their test with a view to travelling at a minimum 140mph
I've seen so many 'near misses' due to a poor quality of driver, especially due to significantly lower speed. Then there is things like people who only put lights on when it's night time, rather than poor visibility. The lights might not help you see that well, but at least you can be seen by other road users.
I saw a Merc almost get chewed up and spat out the other day because the driver didn't understand how long vehicles took narrow corners etc. The ship transporter created a big gap on his offside, ready to cut across. Luckily he checked his mirror before cutting across and found the Merc banging on his side door.
The crazy thing was, the lorry was going round a reverse curve and the Merc tried the same move on the opposite side, after he had done the first part of the curve.

 

[Nym]

Like I said, no such thing as a bad road...

Hence why no-one ever drives me, anywhere! (Except mum and bf)

At least they know how to drive aggressively and safely, and have driven some rather fast and large things... Both ambulance drivers ya know