Snow Service Changes 17/03 onwards

[Wirewiper]

Reposted in Buses & Coaches - How are your local buses doing in the snow?

 

[londonbridge]

I was meant to be running the Eastleigh 10k today which was also called off at 9am yesterday. Was due to travel down to Mum's yesterday (she lives in Chandlers Ford) but waited for the announcement of whether the run was on or off before cancelling my trip. When I spoke to her this morning she said they had about thre inches of snow and it was still snowing.

 

[alxndr]

Good to see that the stopping services between Newbury and Bedwyn have been reinstated. I find it a slightly strange that they stopped them yesterday before the snow hit but have reinstated them despite it still being cold.

 

[Bookd]

In Beeching days the argument in appeals against line closure was often that the train would always get through when th roads might be closed - Whitby escaped on that basis but Alston did not.
It was not infallible as no train could beat a 6 foot snowdrift, but these days the railway seems to be the first to close passing passengers to road services if they are still capable.

 

[RichJF]

Spot on, when I'm driving in adverse weather, leaf fall etc the more coaches the better as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not in the rail industry but isn't this standard protocol in severe weather to try & lengthen the train as much as possible?

I know Southeastern double up 466's on Sheerness in slippery times & also have longer trains on the Medway Valley to avoid slippages and in case one unit does a 'poo poo' on a rural line.

Having an extra unit (ie 8 coaches instead of 4) probably also allows the rear unit to either push the other onto a section where there's clearer electrical contact if the front unit hits ice on the 3rd rail.

 

[Wirewiper]

GWR trains are running, albeit with delays and cancellations - but the rail replacement buses in connection with the Swindon blockade are currently suspended (Sunday 18th).

Not sure when they resumed, but at 17.30 GWR was tweeting that all rail replacement buses were operating again except for Swindon-Gloucester.

Restrictions on Advance tickets have been lifted for today and tickets dated for travel today may be used tomorrow.

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

The additional coaches on the Tonbridge route - how will this work with platforms en route being four car lengths only? Will doors be isolated? It remains to be seen whether 377s will be more "resilient" than 313s, but my experience of 377s is that they sit down at the first sign of snow and ice!

SDO on the 377s, I travelled down that line on Wednesday and saw the signs.

 

[Mugby]

I was on the first Hope Valley stopper from Manchester at 07.44 this morning. I wouldn't normally travel on this but the first TPE to Cleethorpes at 08.17 was cancelled.

It got as far as Chinley but couldn't proceed any further and after much hanging around, it was turned back to Manchester, arriving at 10.00.
While we stood at Chinley, a westbound TPE service passed through so obviously the Down line was not blocked.

Back in Manchester, I got the 10.14 TPE Cleethorpes service which was diverted via Huddersfield and Wakefield, arriving in Sheffield at 12.00.

I was surprised to see that TPE crews sign for the section between Wakefield, Hare Park, Moorthorpe and Swinton, which I didn't know was within their sphere of operation?

 

[PHILIPE]

GWR last night published that the first two Barnstaple services today would be cancelled but, in the end and with worsening weather, the second one was re-instated.

 

[PHILIPE]

I was on the first Hope Valley stopper from Manchester at 07.44 this morning. I wouldn't normally travel on this but the first TPE to Cleethorpes at 08.17 was cancelled.

It got as far as Chinley but couldn't proceed any further and after much hanging around, it was turned back to Manchester, arriving at 10.00.
While we stood at Chinley, a westbound TPE service passed through so obviously the Down line was not blocked.

Back in Manchester, I got the 10.14 TPE Cleethorpes service which was diverted via Huddersfield and Wakefield, arriving in Sheffield at 12.00.

I was surprised to see that TPE crews sign for the section between Wakefield, Hare Park, Moorthorpe and Swinton, which I didn't know was within their sphere of operation?

For route retention purposes:-

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y81486/2018/03/20/advanced

This crops up on the Forum from time to time.

 

[Nick66]

One for the more mature members. When I was a lad and we had a winter in 79 my Dad said that was nothing compared to 63. Back in 79 I can’t remember too much extra disruption but then BR wasn’t great in those days anyway. How was it in 63? Did everyone stay at home for 3 months? Or are we all just getting soft?

 

[Kieran1990]

I was on the first Hope Valley stopper from Manchester at 07.44 this morning. I wouldn't normally travel on this but the first TPE to Cleethorpes at 08.17 was cancelled.

It got as far as Chinley but couldn't proceed any further and after much hanging around, it was turned back to Manchester, arriving at 10.00.
While we stood at Chinley, a westbound TPE service passed through so obviously the Down line was not blocked.

Back in Manchester, I got the 10.14 TPE Cleethorpes service which was diverted via Huddersfield and Wakefield, arriving in Sheffield at 12.00.

I was surprised to see that TPE crews sign for the section between Wakefield, Hare Park, Moorthorpe and Swinton, which I didn't know was within their sphere of operation?

I think there’s a few ECS and late night Leeds-Hudds pathed via Kirgate for route knowledge purposes.. did you reverse at Kirgate or go Hudds-Dewsbury-Woodlesford?

 

[Busaholic]

One for the more mature members. When I was a lad and we had a winter in 79 my Dad said that was nothing compared to 63. Back in 79 I can’t remember too much extra disruption but then BR wasn’t great in those days anyway. How was it in 63? Did everyone stay at home for 3 months? Or are we all just getting soft?

I lived in Eltham, S.E. London. My father went off to work as normal on Southern Electric from Eltham Park: I can't absolutely say this far from the event that he managed that every day, but I don't recollect him being at home. For me, at secondary school in Catford, there was a period of up to two weeks when either no buses ran on the route I used or, possibly, the school was closed, although it was a 'no nonsense' school so the latter was less likely. The winter of 61/62, incidentally, though not as longlasting as 62/63 was also bad. Smog was a huge problem in London still then, and one I remember more than the snow: on one occasion the bus conductor walked in front of the bus with a flare for two or three miles on the way home. There was never an occasion when not going to school was allowable in the smog, even if you got there at 11 a.m.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Well not exactly the Trans Siberian , - but we did SAC - West Hampstead - London Bridge - Blackheath and return via London Bridge - Northern Line to St Pancras - slow back to SAC after 2000 hours tonight. Impeccable journey I have to say , and all trains quite well loaded.

Public transport can , and does work. Wonder why Heathrow dropped the ball. ........?

 

[Mugby]

I think there’s a few ECS and late night Leeds-Hudds pathed via Kirgate for route knowledge purposes.. did you reverse at Kirgate or go Hudds-Dewsbury-Woodlesford?

No, Huddersfield, then past Healey Mills, through Kirkgate on Plat.3, then turned right and through to Hare Park on the Leeds - Don. line, then Moorthorpe and down to Swinton.

 

[BHXDMT]

I think there’s a few ECS and late night Leeds-Hudds pathed via Kirgate for route knowledge purposes.. did you reverse at Kirgate or go Hudds-Dewsbury-Woodlesford?

0325 Sheffield-Man Airport and 2327 Man Airport-Sheffield go via Huddersfield/Wakefield Kirkgate most weeknights/mornings for route knowledge retention, as well as there being an ECS Man Picc-Sheffield in the morning for Drivers.

Sheffield crews sign that diversion hence why the 0914 and 1014 services diverted that way this morning.

 

[sjoh]

Seeing a lot of complaints about how mad it is to cancel a service in this weather and then bemusement at the fact it actually ran, and can't help but draw comparisons with those who complained that SWR totally messed up when their trains got stranded in snow in the New Forest a few weeks ago. At the end of the day, a train either does run or it doesn't. What on earth do you expect? TOC's rely on a forecast from the Met Office. The Met Office rely on ever changing weather data. You either prepare for the worst and don't run a train lest it get stranded, or you ignore that and run it anyway and it gets stranded and you have people stuck on it overnight. I would rather be stuck at Man Picc because Northern decided that the risk was too great to run to Sheffield - whether they're vindicated in that decision or not - than be stuck in the middle of absolutely nowhere on a freezing train because my TOC had decided to throw caution to the wind and run anyway for the convenience of the "wrong sort of snow" brigade.

 

[palmersears]

Hazel Grove to Buxton still shut this morning, however I've just seen 56078+096 pass through New Mills Newtown sandwiched between two ploughs so I would hope the route will be back open later today/first thing tomorrow.

 

[AY1975]

Returning from London to Sheffield via Doncaster last night, I caught the 20.42 TransPennine from Doncaster which was advertised as only going as far as Sheffield, but the pre-recorded announcements and passenger information displays on-board said it was going to Manchester Airport, and shortly before arrival at Sheffield the guard made a manual announcement to the effect that the train would now run through to Manchester Airport after all.

The 19.55 Manchester Airport-Cleethorpes (21.10 ex-Sheffield) was only advertised as going as far as Habrough, although Real Time Trains has it as having run through to Cleethorpes.

 

[STANDISH]

Hazel Grove/ Buxton still blocked. Snow plough ran one way towards Buxton, but did not return. From Buxton went on freight lines to Chinley and back to Crewe

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Hazel Grove/ Buxton still blocked. Snow plough ran one way towards Buxton, but did not return. From Buxton went on freight lines to Chinley and back to Crewe

Issues with tunnel ice one gathers - not surprising - good that NR are looking out for these things as they can be very destructive.

Have seen a MK3 coach with a sliced open roof as a combination of big ice and a frozen roof mounted toilet tank. Chipping Sodbury tunnel.

Only time I have assisted train crew with a large hammer to sort of knock the jagged edges back into some rough sort of gauge on Swindon station. Job stopped in rear and set ECS to OOC for attention.

 

[CHAPS2034]

In Beeching days the argument in appeals against line closure was often that the train would always get through when th roads might be closed - Whitby escaped on that basis but Alston did not.

Buxton was also in this category; the train being the only lifeline during heavy snow. Not today as we have read earlier.

One for the more mature members. When I was a lad and we had a winter in 79 my Dad said that was nothing compared to 63. Back in 79 I can’t remember too much extra disruption but then BR wasn’t great in those days anyway. How was it in 63? Did everyone stay at home for 3 months? Or are we all just getting soft?

Having stayed with relatives in Bath over Christmas/New Year 62/3, my mum and I returned to Stockport early in the New Year. There was several inches of snow in Bath when we left. We got to Temple Meads where there was considerable confusion over whether the the train to Crewe was coming through the thick snow from Exeter or whether it had been cancelled or got stuck. After a lot of messing around including a last minute platform change (which Mum said was par for the course at Temple Meads) a Castle appeared and we set off. It was so cold that my spotting activities hanging out of the window didn't last long.

The trains at that time routed via the Marches and we stopped for some while at Pontypool Road, at that time a big station with buildings and canopies. A businessman in our compartment had had his head buried in the paper and eventually looked up, saw the station signs and asked if this was the Paddington train as it seemed an unusual place to stop. Cue a rapid exit when he found out The platform alteration at BTM had resulted us using the "London" platform which he was used to.

We eventually got to Crewe a couple of hours late (no delay repay in those days ) and caught an EMU home - from Crewe to Stockport there was hardly any snow but the journey north had been through a winter wonderland. My footprints in the snow in a shaded area of my uncle's garden in Bath were still there several weeks later.

Public transport can , and does work. Wonder why Heathrow dropped the ball.

Having spent 40 years working at airports (but not Heathrow), the problem Heathrow has is that it is at capacity all day and any even minor disruption causes problems and delays. In snow, they have to clear not only the runways but taxiways and apron areas which is quite some job. In addition aircraft must be de-iced on stands before departure which increases the dwell times, so you get aircraft landing which have nowhere to park and taxiway congestion and gridlock quickly ensues. All this causes knock on delays and so it goes on all day. In thick fog the landing rate is halved for safety reasons as you need to leave much bigger gaps between arrivals to allow the aircraft to manoeuvre off the runway having done an automatic landing.

So Heathrow now has a policy of demanding airlines cancel a proportion flights in advance to minimise the disruption to the other flights. These are often short haul flights and particularly domestic flights where people can get to their destinations by train or coach. Heathrow - Manchester flights are always affected by this and many frequent fliers up here will now avoid Heathrow, changing instead elsewhere in Europe or the Middle East if there are no direct flights.

Hope this helps
CW

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Having spent 40 years working at airports (but not Heathrow), the problem Heathrow has is that it is at capacity all day and any even minor disruption causes problems and delays. In snow, they have to clear not only the runways but taxiways and apron areas which is quite some job. In addition aircraft must be de-iced on stands before departure which increases the dwell times, so you get aircraft landing which have nowhere to park and taxiway congestion and gridlock quickly ensues. All this causes knock on delays and so it goes on all day. In thick fog the landing rate is halved for safety reasons as you need to leave much bigger gaps between arrivals to allow the aircraft to manoeuvre off the runway having done an automatic landing.

So Heathrow now has a policy of demanding airlines cancel a proportion flights in advance to minimise the disruption to the other flights. These are often short haul flights and particularly domestic flights where people can get to their destinations by train or coach. Heathrow - Manchester flights are always affected by this and many frequent fliers up here will now avoid Heathrow, changing instead elsewhere in Europe or the Middle East if there are no direct flights.

Hope this helps
CW

Thanks for that - appreciate now how tight it all is out there - to be fair , Luton did well airport wise with the week long freeze recently - it ran late , but pretty well everything ran ! Fair play ....

 

[Ianigsy]

Buxton was also in this category; the train being the only lifeline during heavy snow. Not today as we have read earlier.

A few years ago I bought a copy of British Railways Illustrated, which covered an interesting experiment in the Buxton area in the 1960s. Essentially, somebody in BR at Derby got talking to somebody in Rolls Royce, and the end result was a RR jet engine mounted on a flat wagon as an improvised snow blower, with two 8Fs pushing against the jet to keep it in place!

 

[furnessvale]

A few years ago I bought a copy of British Railways Illustrated, which covered an interesting experiment in the Buxton area in the 1960s. Essentially, somebody in BR at Derby got talking to somebody in Rolls Royce, and the end result was a RR jet engine mounted on a flat wagon as an improvised snow blower, with two 8Fs pushing against the jet to keep it in place!

If the date is correct, I am surprised they repeated the jet experiment of 1947/48 where the jet not only removed the snow, but a good chunk of the perway as well.

 

[Spartacus]

If the date is correct, I am surprised they repeated the jet experiment of 1947/48 where the jet not only removed the snow, but a good chunk of the perway as well.

Just shows nothing's new, including the new guy attempting something that the old hands tell him has been done before and failed, but he believes HE can make it work.....

 

[Skipness]

Hazel Grove/ Buxton still blocked. Snow plough ran one way towards Buxton, but did not return. From Buxton went on freight lines to Chinley and back to Crewe

Apparently the leading locomotive suffered damage to windscreen and roof from impact with icicles, hence thr return via Peak Forest. Engineering possession put in place to allow manual removal of icicles.
(The limestone tunnels in this area are renowned for being "wet")

 

[Dr Hoo]

There are plenty of wet tunnels around that are prone to icicles. Quite apart from the ones in the Peak District (with which I am now most familiar) I remember finding out that Selling Tunnel (between Faversham and Canterbury East, in Kent) suffered from that problem.

In particular I discovered that the cars on the top deck of double-deck car carriers were very slightly taller than 4-CEP electric units. A very expensive and sorry experience when the large number of wrecked vehicles were discovered sometime back around 1985.

 

[317362]

For anyone still there, GWR have advised the Newbury-Bedwyn stoppers are cancelled in potential freezing conditions (whether it happens or not) due to concerns over the Bedwyn points locking. GWR decided Friday 16 March to cancel all trains all day on Saturday 17 March due to 'potential bad weather on Saturday night' which seems a bit of a copout...

Have asked NR whether siding lengthening/refurb will include working points heaters.