Snow on Highland mainline

[Northhighland]

Travelling back to Inverness last night noticed Snow plough in normal position. Note though no spare loco sitting about to push it. What is the position here is there traction in Inverness for snow clearing?

 

[Highlandspring]

Nothing on hire at the moment but it can be arranged with one phone call and a few hours notice. But by the time the independent ploughs are needed you'd have had an MSP fitted loco out patrolling for days anyway.

 

[Southsider]

Nothing on hire at the moment but it can be arranged with one phone call and a few hours notice. But by the time the independent ploughs are needed you'd have had an MSP fitted loco out patrolling for days anyway.

A Member of the Scottish Parliament in front of a loco? Surely not!

 

[PaulLothian]

A Member of the Scottish Parliament in front of a loco? Surely not!

There's a few I would nominate...

 

[Class83]

Though at usual Scottish levels of snowfall if a Class 37 was patrolling Perth-Inverness all night it would be unlikely that an actual plough would be needed more than once a decade.

 

[Iskra]

I'm booked to travel on the Far North Line on Tuesday and then on the sleeper out of Inverness that night, heavy snow is forecast that day and night, can anyone comment on the two routes resilience- are the often closed due to snow in winter? What happens if the trains are cancelled due to snow, considering that if trains can't run, the roads are also likely to be impassable?

Then again, these days weather forecasters seem to over-forecast when it comes to snow, so it could well turn out to be nothing.

 

[Highland37]

Resilience is very poor but is rarely tested as there is rarely enough snow to cause any issues. So I wouldn't worry. The main issue is that Scotrail don't have a can do attitude. Check out the snow on the youtube video from Flam here and ask yourself why Scotrail are put off by some minor snow:

Roads are mainly a problem when you get hordes of people trying to drive with summer tyres as if it was the middle of July.

 

[Iskra]

Thank you, hopefully there will be no cancellations/disruption

 

[najaB]

The main issue is that Scotrail don't have a can do attitude. Check out the snow on the youtube video from Flam here and ask yourself why Scotrail are put off by some minor snow

To be fair, it'll usually be Network Rail's call as to if the route is open or closed.

 

[47271]

I've been using the Highland Main Line year round for quite a while now and very rarely has snowfall in itself stopped the trains such that I've been inconvenienced, maybe two or three times in seven or eight years. In general the railway is more reliable than the A9 in snowy conditions, and for the reasons already stated, so if it's bad enough that the job stops then I wouldn't rely on road transport to come to the rescue.

Let's put it this way, I'm not worrying about later this week. If there's a problem then we'll just have to deal with it. If you're concerned about getting somewhere in time then make a contingency - I always warn my company if I think a forecast weather drama might hold me up.

 

[Highlandspring]

To be fair, it'll usually be Network Rail's call as to if the route is open or closed.

The line can be open but it's up to the TOC as to what sort of service they run. However in Scotland there's a bit of collaboration between the NR and Scotrail control duty managers as part of the EWAT process. Scotrail decide the service pattern and NR input the emergency timetable/cancellations.

 

[najaB]

The line can be open but it's up to the TOC as to what sort of service they run.

True. But if we're talking independent snowplough weather then it'll be NR calling the shots.

 

[Highlandspring]

Well, yes...

 

[Carntyne]

Resilience is very poor but is rarely tested as there is rarely enough snow to cause any issues. So I wouldn't worry. The main issue is that Scotrail don't have a can do attitude. Check out the snow on the youtube video from Flam here and ask yourself why Scotrail are put off by some minor snow:

Roads are mainly a problem when you get hordes of people trying to drive with summer tyres as if it was the middle of July.

When was the last time ScotRail withdrew services due to minor snow?

 

[USRailFan]

Hopefully it won't be the wrong type of snow this time... :P

 

[92002]

The line can be open but it's up to the TOC as to what sort of service they run. However in Scotland there's a bit of collaboration between the NR and Scotrail control duty managers as part of the EWAT process. Scotrail decide the service pattern and NR input the emergency timetable/cancellations.

It is an Alliance between ScotRail and Network Rail in Scotland which works very well and could be a benefit other areas.

If the Highland mainline is in need of ploughing there always is the sleeper loco there during the daytime. Assuming somebody still signs 67s. There's already 37s at Perth that can start from there.

If all else fails the 2 snowblowers are in Glasgow. So already a plan in place.

 

[Highlandspring]

I'm well aware of the intricacies of the Alliance and how the weather contingencies work, given I'm one of those charged with implementing them.

 

[USRailFan]

I guess if all else fail we could load this one onto a Viking Ship and send it across the North Sea...

 

[DarloRich]

Travelling back to Inverness last night noticed Snow plough in normal position. Note though no spare loco sitting about to push it. What is the position here is there traction in Inverness for snow clearing?

it depends on the weather forecast. No point hiring in a loco and crew (s) that wont be used.

I'm booked to travel on the Far North Line on Tuesday and then on the sleeper out of Inverness that night, heavy snow is forecast that day and night, can anyone comment on the two routes resilience- are the often closed due to snow in winter? What happens if the trains are cancelled due to snow, considering that if trains can't run, the roads are also likely to be impassable?

Then again, these days weather forecasters seem to over-forecast when it comes to snow, so it could well turn out to be nothing.

You will be fine. The weather service used by the railway is pretty good and doesn't go over the top like the TV weather. Snow up the rail head? Send out a 37 fitted with a mini plough( MSP). LOTS of snow will bring out the big ISP.

 

[Northhighland]

I've been using the Highland Main Line year round for quite a while now and very rarely has snowfall in itself stopped the trains such that I've been inconvenienced, maybe two or three times in seven or eight years. In general the railway is more reliable than the A9 in snowy conditions, and for the reasons already stated, so if it's bad enough that the job stops then I wouldn't rely on road transport to come to the rescue.

Let's put it this way, I'm not worrying about later this week. If there's a problem then we'll just have to deal with it. If you're concerned about getting somewhere in time then make a contingency - I always warn my company if I think a forecast weather drama might hold me up.

I would disagree with your assertion that the Highland Main line is more reliable than the A9, I use this route weekly and try hard to use the train. Have had regular disruptions though and a Taxi from Inverness to Perth or Perth to Inverness or a lengthy wait for a bus is by no means unusual, rarely for snow but regularly for flooding and other things. A9 is very rarely closed. Have also been on the early morning train from Glasgow to Inverness to arrive in Perth and be told this train is terminating please leave the train immediately and be told by Scotrail tough your problem. Walked to the bus station and cath the city link, if your quick before the rest of the train gets there.

But as others have said snow is not usually a huge issue. My original query was if the plough is in Inverness but the loco to push it is in the central belt, this would seem to have the potential to be an issue. But as others have helpfully pointed out it is not likely to be.

 

[47271]

We're not disagreeing on anything. I was very clear when I said the HML is generally more reliable than the A9 in SNOWY conditions, not that it's more reliable generally. It falls over a lot more readily in the face of flooding or high winds for example.

 

[Ben.A.98]

The main issues we had at the north end of the HML last time we had snow, is it getting into the points and jamming them. All of the highland loops are bad, no trains get to cross at Slochd due to this normally. The point heaters do everything they can but when its falling heavy and gusting wind in exposed areas and cuttings, its just not enough, thats why we have snowmen to dig them out.

 

[DarloRich]

There are often locos provided at Perth, Fort William and Inverness for snow clearance. There is a light loco working from Aberdeen to Inverness today that I suggest is one of those locos moving into posistion.

 

[Mallone]

Resilience is very poor but is rarely tested as there is rarely enough snow to cause any issues. So I wouldn't worry. The main issue is that Scotrail don't have a can do attitude. Check out the snow on the youtube video from Flam here and ask yourself why Scotrail are put off by some minor snow:

Roads are mainly a problem when you get hordes of people trying to drive with summer tyres as if it was the middle of July.

What an amazing video...thank you for sharing it.

 

[Carntyne]

There are often locos provided at Perth, Fort William and Inverness for snow clearance. There is a light loco working from Aberdeen to Inverness today that I suggest is one of those locos moving into posistion.

Locos based at all three locations during the bad weather forecast. Snow train available also.

 

[DarloRich]

Snow train available also.

still based at Slateford?

 

[Highlandspring]

No, Perth Carriage Sidings (and has been since 2014)

 

[DarloRich]

No, Perth Carriage Sidings (and has been since 2014)

Thanks. I forgot it had moved up that way. The Winter Development Train:

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/runni...t-machines-vehicles/seasonal-track-treatment/

The third type of winter de-icing train, the winter development vehicle (WDV), is built to blow hot air around the running rails – specifically around points and crossings – to melt snow and ice that is stopping the points from working. The WDV is also equipped with steam lances to melt the more built-up stubborn ice deposits.

 

[Iskra]

Thanks all for the reassurance.

Inverness-Wick return was completed with only minor delay and it was great scenery-wise with the snow- felt very Nordic.

The Cally sleeper travelled through very heavy snow down to Euston, but was delayed for other reasons. The sleeper website is showing the Nortbound Aberdeen and Fort William portions as delayed by snow, but not the Inverness.